Please don't hit skydivers

[Danger Will Robinson]

For years I have watched conflicts between aircraft and skydivers increase at Zephyrhills FL during Sun N Fun.

Be advised that KZPH is home of Skydive city http://www.skydivecity.com one of the largest Drop Zones in the country.

It is also just outside the eastern edge of the Tampa class B airspace.

This year due to an early Easter the winter season is winding down but their is still plenty of jumping activity going on, especially on weekends.

The Sun N Fun notam advises to use caution for parachute jumping at Zephyrhills and Lakeland South. But what is cautious?

If you are not talking to Tampa approach on 119.9 I recommend transitioning aircraft give the SouthEast corner of ZPH a 1.5 mile berth. Here's a pic

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25314173@N08/?saved=1

To understand how see and avoid between Jumpers and A/C is so difficult here's a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu3nA...eature=related

Fly Safe and See you at Sun N Fun

[danielhv]

Wow... that video is something else. What a lucky guy! I wonder if the pilot even saw him as he passed....

[n5lp]

Originally Posted by Danger Will Robinson

For years I have watched conflicts between aircraft and skydivers increase at Zephyrhills during Sun N Fun.

Be advised that KZPH is home to one of the largest Drop Zones in the country...

That sounds like a real good area to avoid and it seems pretty easy to do so. The NOTAM only covers about 100 square statute miles.

What do you do with this one?

"Salt Flat [SFL VOR]: October NOTAM #460 issued by Albuquerque NM [ABQ]
Airspace parachute jumping excercise 15 nautical mile radius SFL13307.8 FL200/below 1300-0500 daily effective from October 18th, 2009 at 07:00 AM MDT (0910181300) - October 29th, 2009 at 11:00 PM MDT (0910200600)"

About 1,000 square statute miles covering most of the airspace in the narrow corridor between Mexico and the huge White Sands Missile Range with many many victor airways going through the NOTAM area.

Salt Flat Mystery Airport

[Low Pass]

It's see and be seen, skydivers. VFR.

Practically speaking, you're a much smaller target and **decending from above**. That puts the obligation to avoid on jumpers as I see it.

If they're over the drop zone, they probably aren't aware of the hazard/NOTAM. Not aware, they aren't looking for jumpers, and sure aren't looking up.

[Danger Will Robinson]

Originally Posted by Low Pass

It's see and be seen, skydivers. VFR.

That puts the obligation to avoid on jumpers as I see it.
.

Not so! See and avoid [also known as dumb luck] is the responsibility of both parties.

Be aware. Fat, stupid and happy over the DZ is not going to make anyone less dead.

It does happen.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/23/us...l?pagewanted=1

Let's be careful out there.

[Kyle Boatright]

Originally Posted by Low Pass

It's see and be seen, skydivers. VFR.

Practically speaking, you're a much smaller target and **decending from above**. That puts the obligation to avoid on jumpers as I see it.

If they're over the drop zone, they probably aren't aware of the hazard/NOTAM. Not aware, they aren't looking for jumpers, and sure aren't looking up.

Jump operations often play around the margins (or beyond the margins) of the rules, so I avoid flying anywhere near airspace that may be populated by meat bombs. A year or so ago I was on an X/C to Charleston, SC and my course was gonna take me right over a field that has a skydiving operation. I detoured 5 miles north and listened on the radio.

There was a broken overcast above me with a solid thin layer (possibly transparent if you were looking straight down) above that. The skydivers jumped through the whole mess. Having meat-bombs popping through (or around) the ~5,000 layer with 500' to see and avoid just wasn't my cup of tea. I was very glad I'd detoured around the area.

The thing is, if you have a collision with a skydiver, you're probably both dead, regardless of who caused the accident.

[LifeofReiley]

Anyone that would jump out of a perfectly good flying airplane... Well... it's like a bird. Most of the time you can miss them.

[Low Pass]

Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright

......Jump operations often play around the margins (or beyond the margins) of the rules, so I avoid flying anywhere near airspace that may be populated by meat bombs.......

I stay well clear just for this reason. You never know what's going to fall out of the clouds in these areas.

As for see and be seen, that's what I meant. My point was jumpers have the same obligation. But they don't understand or appreciate this.

Glad you're trying educate pilots. But I just think time and money is better spent (trying to) educating the jumpers, because they're - for the most part - pretty clueless about the rules of the road.

[G-force]

As a skydiver, I got to interject. Lets look at the physics of it all. We are traveling vertically between 2 and 3 miles a minute with little ability to move horizontally. With perfect form, and time to accelerate, we could get close to about a 100 mph horizontal movement, but in reality, as shown in the video posted, the skydiver is probably going to have very little time after seeing an aircraft. When exiting the jump plane, our visibility and ability to look for other aircraft (that are 2-3 miles below us and 2-4 miles laterally if they are on a collision course with us) is often restricted. Depending on the aircraft, we may have 180 degrees of vertical and horizontal view on a side exit aircraft, excluding the area blocked by the wing and tail. On rear exit craft, we are lucky to see 60-90 degrees of view in either direction. So if we have very limited visibility before we jump, and have little control of our trajectory (in the time allotted if we find our self in a "Oh $&!T there is a plane!" situation) it is not in anyones interest to put the burden of "You get out of the way" on the "meatbombs." As I see it, it is much more of a "Faster, more maneuverable craft give way to slower, less maneuverable craft." Even at 200 mph, an RV has the ability to change trajectory (up, down, left and right) much faster, and to a greater degree and any skydiver. They also have the ability to know ahead of time when/where drop zones are active, monitor that airports frequencies as to when "jumpers away", and plan flight paths around such airspace. Jumpers have no ability to know when other aircraft are going to penetrate our airspace, airspace that is a pretty narrow 5-10 thousand foot wide cylinder of air from ground to about 15k AGL, and have to fly in if we want to land back at the airport. So while it is the responsibility of every person in the sky to "maintain safe distance from other craft", I believe the aircraft have a much better stocked "toolbox" to solve the problem, and physical abilities to prevent midair collisions with skydivers. As long as we all do, as much as we can do, we should be able to coexist.

Originally Posted by Low Pass

Glad you're trying educate pilots. But I just think time and money is better spent (trying to) educating the jumpers, because they're - for the most part - pretty clueless about the rules of the road.

[BASE1127]

It's also important to point out the dropzone at Lake Wales (X07) is very active. It is a good area to avoid when traveling to and from LAL.

I've been a professional skydiver for a few years and I've had a number of semi-close calls with other aircraft that seem to concentrate around SnF. A pilot should always exercise extra caution when flying in the vicinity of jump operations. Monitoring the CTAF or approach frequencies can clue you in to when groups will be exiting, but the best thing you can do is simply avoid the area. Skydivers rarely end up more than three miles (usually less than 1.5) from their intended landing point, so giving a wide berth to this area when jump operations are taking place will keep everybody out of harm's way. Also, the aircraft dropping jumpers will fly a jump run into the winds aloft so that the skydivers end up opening their canopies upwind of the intended landing point. Larger dropzones like Zephyrhills usually operate Twin Otters, Skyvans and other large aircraft which may be carrying upwards of 20 jumpers. Those 20 or so jumpers often exit in several groups of two to six with a group leaving the airplane every 5 to 15 seconds depending on the aircraft's ground speed at altitude. If you see a group of jumpers open in front of your aircraft, expect another to open a few tenths of a mile upwind in roughly ten seconds.

Originally Posted by Low Pass

As for see and be seen, that's what I meant. My point was jumpers have the same obligation. But they don't understand or appreciate this.

Skydivers are taught to use their eyes and scan the area before leaving the airplane, but remember, a group leaves the airplane every 5-15 seconds, so there isn't very much time for scanning. Skydivers jumping from 13,500 AGL will freefall for roughly a minute before opening their parachutes, usually at altitudes between 2000 and 6000 AGL. If a skydiver looks down before jumping and sees your RV a few miles away from where he will be opening, he may figure that you're far enough away for him to jump safely. If he's in freefall for a minute, by the time he gets to opening altitude, your RV has traveled over three miles, quite possibly into what he thought would be clear airspace when he exited the airplane... Remember this is working on the assumption that he sees you in the first place.

It's see and be seen, skydivers. VFR.

Practically speaking, you're a much smaller target and **decending from above**. That puts the obligation to avoid on jumpers as I see it.

Skydivers are a smaller target, sure, but they are by FAR less maneuverable. Descending from above is a moot point when the only direction that you're capable of going is down. While in freefall, they are stuck going pretty much straight down. Under canopy, they have good directional control but are fairly slow moving and only capable of descending at a glide ratio of at best 5:1. This restricts parachutes to a very small bit of airspace above and upwind of their intended target. Due to this fact, I think the obligation to avoid lies in the hands of pilots. Just avoid these very small areas around dropzones and there will be no chance of collision.

That said, I hope everyone has a safe trip to Sun-N-Fun! I'll see you there. If anybody wants to know more about parachute operations, feel free to ask.