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04-10-2010, 04:14 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Elmendorf,TX
Posts: 358
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Smooth rolls.
I don't get motion sick, but I get queasy pulling a lot of G's, so I learned to do the "smooth" roll in my 7.
Pick an airspeed (I often do these while in cruise).
Nose up about 5 degrees, start the roll and keep pulling up "slightly". Neutralize the elevator and give a "tiny" bit of push while inverted. Lose the push as we come around. If I did it right, I'll be at the starting altitude and direction, with no (or hardly any) pull up.
Done right, it's so smooth it feels like the world turned while we sat still.
It's harder to describe than it is to do.
YMMV.
Oh yea, I'm usually too busy grinning to even remember if I pushed the rudder. 
__________________
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Hangared since 11/23/2011, working on getting airborne again!
Joe Portman
N131RV - RV-7A, IO360A1B6, CS
Rebuilt as TD
Added dual MGL EFIS.
Airborne again at last! 2/21/2009
Elmendorf, TX (28TE)
baron (AT) baron (dot) com
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04-10-2010, 08:43 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: colorado
Posts: 873
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barrel rolls
an example of a barrel roll and a few other maneuvers click on "more from" and see some views of same maneuvers from the cockpit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdB6MK56uJw
cm
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04-11-2010, 09:13 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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After I bought my -6 I flew around with a spare litre of oil standing in the back of the baggage compartment, because I didn't have a good handle on the consumption yet and wanted to be ready with a spare litre in case I needed it. I just put it back there and intended to secure it "later" but forgot about it.
Of course, the first day I went out and did some ballistic rolls (nose up, neutral elevator, aileron only, exit nose slightly down), I *completely* forgot about it. But, when I got back on the ground and happened to glance into the baggage compartment while getting out, I noticed the litre was still in the same place. And still standing up. These really are amazing airplanes.
I think while doing ballistic rolls (as long as you don't hit an air pocket like Bill did) the baggage compartment floor is always on the "outside" of the CG as you roll, so things that are low and close to the floor always experience positive G. Still, you shouldn't rely on that for security. Time for a baggage net. 
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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04-11-2010, 09:16 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N131RV
Nose up about 5 degrees, start the roll and keep pulling up "slightly". Neutralize the elevator and give a "tiny" bit of push while inverted. Lose the push as we come around. If I did it right, I'll be at the starting altitude and direction, with no (or hardly any) pull up.
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Do you have inverted systems? If not, do you get much/any oil coming out of your breather tube? I've been avoiding any zero- or negative-G points in my rolls because I've been told i'll be cleaning the belly afterwards... But I don't really know how much negative it takes.
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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04-11-2010, 01:54 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Arlington, WA
Posts: 799
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negative g's without an air/oil separator
I was taught to do aileron rolls by setting speed at about 150mph, pull up to about 15* pitch, neutralize the elevator, and then slap the aileron over.
The RV-7 will describe an arc as it rolls  similar to the frown on this guys face, and finish the roll at about a 15* pitch down angle.
Last week I slapped the ailerons over before neutralizing my plane (still had a little up elevator in). Well, when a plane is upside-down, up elevator will send you down! I felt the negative g's as I rolled through inverted and recovered with about 30* pitch down angle.
The Dynon G meter showed -0.3 g's.
Back on the ground, I spent the next hour washing the belly of my RV.
Time to work on better technique or getting an air/oil separator.
__________________
_______________________________
Scott "Grumpy" Stewart
RV-7 N957RV (First Flight on Dec 18, 2009 )
RV-14 N144P (Empennage complete, wings almost complete, fuselage almost complete)
#866 on the Van's RV-7 hobbs
#6563 on Van's generic hobbs
Arlington, WA
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04-11-2010, 05:26 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 474
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Oops
I've done about a couple of dozen aileron rolls as I described in the first post. I had first been up with two other RV pilots who demonstrated an aileron roll and felt comfortable doing one myself after this. I had also studied the technique described in the aerobatic book, and from Van's epistle, and understood what not to do, potential problems and how to recover (i.e. no pulling the stick while inverted for that bottom split-s at high speed  ). I'll admit to an error on my third flight including rolls. I had just finished a test sequence and was brimming with the joy of flying and decided to do a couple rolls before heading in. Szurovy warned of not releasing aileron pressure during the roll as this will lead to the world stopping and in my case with a carburated engine, some disconcerting sputtering and engine possibly stopping. Well, you guessed it. I don't recall releasing aileron pressure, but I do recall the roll severely slowing down, my timer falling out of it's holder on the panel (upside down at this point), and the engine sputtering. I held the stick against the aileron stop and eventually was right side up again. Indicated -.6 g's on the dynon. I start with 30 degrees up angle before neutralizing the elevator.
When I returned, I found I had lost 1/2 quart of oil. It was amazing that this 1/2 qt of oil could cover the entire bottom of the fuselage, including the rudder!!
Szurovy notes in his book that this normally only happens once  . Guess I'm good to go now. Lesson learned.
Other than that, I've never seen any oil on the belly-zero, none, and I followed earlier advice and just skipped a separator. In other words, don't fret about the oil on the belly if you keep the aileron hard over during the roll.
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Tim Ribble
Virginia Beach
RV-6A (only took 13 years to build  )
N621TR In unrestricted operation
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04-11-2010, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Elm Grove, LA
Posts: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trib
I'm a newbie to aerobatics and have a basic question. All I do is rolls currently, but plan on getting some training for the basic positive-g stuff. When performing aileron rolls, I've had several different answers concerning rudder usage and am trying to determine what the effects are to determine the best approach for me. Van's epistle has you place both feet on the floor  . I've just been performing rolls with a neutral rudder. The aerobatic book I have which was recommended here (Szurovy/Goulian) recommends rudder in the roll direction as you enter the roll and then neutral throughout. Other's have recommended applying rudder in the roll direction throughout the roll. Note I am only talking about an aileron roll and not a coordinated roll where top rudder is applied in conjuction with elevator.
Can anyone fill me in on the benefits of applying rudder vs. Van's feet-on-the-floor method? Does it speed up the roll? Just looking to understand how it affects the maneuver and would appreciate any info.
thanks
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Trib, depress the rudder just slightly in the direction of the roll as you apply aileron. It will overcome any yaw induced by the prop gyro effect and any adverse yaw as a result of aileron movement. Once you begin the roll, just relax the pressure on your foot. Do not counter the pressure with your other foot when you rollout. As technique, raise the nose of the aircraft ~5 degrees before you begin the roll. Make sure you are not loaded up when you apply rudder/aileron. Also, make sure you have plenty of altitude for any acro; you can never have too much. Manage your energy and plan your maneuvers WRT altitude/entry-exit parameters/geo-refs before you step to the aircraft. I also recommend you talk yourself through the maneuvers on the ground and in the air. All these techniques worked well for me when I flew jets in the AF. I found they work well in civil aviation, as well.
John
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07-12-2017, 10:58 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: BRAZIL
Posts: 138
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Is there a way to indicate roll rate on G3X ? Many thanks if someone knows how.
__________________
Alexandre "neck" Marton
Brazil
RV7A (8/2015 built by FLYER)
Lycoming 180 HP - YIO-360-M1B, Hartzell C2YR-1BFP/F7497? 72??, Garmin panel - G3X Touch, GTN650, GTS800, WX-500, BATT CONCORDE RG-25XC AEROBATIC SEALED.
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Others: RV9A
Lycoming XIO320-D1A, Hartzell HC-C2YL-1BF/F7663-4 , CS GOVERNOR MTV-12-B, DYNON D180
AND GARMIN AVIONICS
(Sold with aprox 300hrs flown from Dec/2010 -- JUN/2014)
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07-12-2017, 07:32 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Broken Arrow OK
Posts: 183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmbgood
Make sure you are not loaded up when you apply rudder/aileron.
John
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I was also taught this. Make sure you're stabilized before applying Aileron. I like 140 kts, pitch up, stabilize....apply aileron and then rudder when in the inverted portion of the roll to speed things up reduce loss of pitch. Applying earlier will result in a greater nose drop. A Right roll is easier on your Pax in a side by side I have been "told". I had a Cessna Aerobat that required more flying through every portion. These RV's make it easy really.
__________________
RV6A
RV7A
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07-12-2017, 07:57 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cumming, Georgia
Posts: 873
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Scott,
I am not going to tell you how to fly but In gentleman acrobatics I have never slapped an aileron to do any roll. It is just not needed.
If as you say you pull up to +15 degrees you should be able to roll your 7 with about 2-3 inches of aileron travel on the stick and wind up with the nose back in level flight. I can roll my 7 at 120 mph for a nice slow Bob Hoover roll or 170 mph when doing 8 point rolls
Mark Fullerton is begging me to come fly competitive aerobatics but not sure if the increase maintenance cost is worth it.
I have not totally decided yet. 48 years of loving aviation as a career and hobby.
Jack
__________________
Smilin' Jack & Anita Hunt
N507H RV7, KJZP Jasper, GA
EAA690
APRS/ WB4JKY
Retired Corporate Pilot CFI-AI, MEL
CE500, LRJT, HS25, C650, SBJT, CL60
Hunt Aviation, LLC.
Pilot Service, IPC's Biennials.
Comm Glider
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