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  #11  
Old 04-06-2010, 08:57 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Location: SC
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Like you, I'm a VFR kind of guy and doubt I will ever go IFR. This is a hobby, not an occupation and keeping current IFR is just not what I want to do.

Prior to building my -9, I was really into antiques and the fewer gauges, the better. IMHO

After flying behind the Dynon 100 EFIS, D10 EMS, and Garmin 496 w/ weather I can't imagine going back. There is just so much information on those screens, it is stunning. Things like automatic TAS, wind direction, HSI, G-meter, and a LOT more.

Should you get caught in the clouds, the EFIS screens are easier to scan (IMHO) and bla, bla, bla.

The problem with any of the EFIS systems is that they do require software upgrades. That is just the nature of the animal.

I've never flown a Stearman or J-3 that required a software upgrade.

Other positive things to think about, they are simple to install (during the build, retrofits are always a pain!), lighter, and probably more reliable.
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  #12  
Old 04-06-2010, 09:17 PM
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Greg Arehart Greg Arehart is offline
 
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Location: Delta, CO/Atlin, BC
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Default Its the mission

If the gauges fit your mission and continue to operate properly, I would see no reason to change. The advantages and disadvantages to glass have already been spelled out pretty well, so it really boils down to what you need for your type of flying and whether making a change is worth the time, effort, and cost. FWIW, I started my 9 in 2007 thinking I would prefer traditional gauges, but ended up going with glass for reasons of weight, information (particularly the engine monitoring), and resale (only after I'm dead and gone, of course!). But that was a new install also, so maybe isn't too relevant other than to give you some background on me.

greg
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  #13  
Old 04-06-2010, 09:34 PM
hughfi hughfi is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 151
Default Glass is not a large benefit to VFR, but is really valuable IFR

I fly the AFS AF3500 on both sides and use their flight director to minimize my scan while flying and ILS or GPS approach. It corrects for wind and my plates are integrated. Hands down, it reduces my workload by 50% to a six pack setup. Now couple it with an autopilot which is much harder to do on older instruments and it will fly down a GPS approach, level at minimums and basically make flying IFR both safe and reliable. The flight director means you have no more scan, just stick the attitude indicator under the flight director and and it does the rest. Manage airspeed and you are done. I hand fly every 3rd approach or so to make sure I am still comfortable doing that and use back up instruments every 10 approaches to get down safely if not all that precisely. I can honestly say that the EFIS is actually worth double the value of the steam gauges to me, and cost about the same.
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  #14  
Old 04-06-2010, 10:04 PM
the_other_dougreeves the_other_dougreeves is offline
 
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Location: Dallas, TX (ADS)
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For day VFR only, I'd sell you on steam gauges. Better "at-a-glance" readability, longer lifespan (will your legacy EFIS be supported and working in 10+ years?), cheaper. A GPS would be nice to have, I really like having the 696 around the odd shapes of the DFW/DAL Class B. The EIS functions are nice but not required.

For day/night VFR it's a toss up. You need a horizon reference, and most EFIS cost about the same as a gyro. If you have something like an Trutrak ADI or ADI Pilot, you're Ok. EFIS is already lit, no light rings needed.

For IFR, it's clear that glass is the way to go. Easier IFR scan, integrated terrain warnings, EIS alarms that appear on the EFIS, so it's in your scan. Glass should be cheaper and more reliable.

The only other reason (in my mind, anyway) to go with glass is if you just don't have much panel space, e.g., RV-3 / -4.

I've flown the same model of airplane, one steam gauges and a G696, the other one dual dynon and a 496. For day VFR flight, I preferred the steam gauge airplane. For night VFR or IFR, I'd probably want the glass.

TODR
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  #15  
Old 04-06-2010, 10:38 PM
Rick S. Rick S. is offline
 
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Location: Las Vegas
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I don't think we need to talk you into anything, if what you have works for you then go with it. I learned on the regular six pack. I had hundreds maybe a thousand hours of computer simulator time before I actually took flying lessons and got my PPL. I have the dual AFS 3500 EFIS in my RV-10, I love it. I attribute the ease of learning that system to my computer flight sim days. I'm just shy of being classified as a "Luddite Curmudgeon " I'm 48 and grew up with first green CRT's then VGA then full blown computer graphics. If you like all your flight information crammed into a 5" x 5" or so screen and your eyes and mind work in unison to interpret that info then go for it. The Skyview system looks great..lots of thing to consider. Scott Schmidt made a comment several years ago after he had first flown his RV-10 and I'm paraphrasing...He said all that interior and panel is nice but you don't find yourself looking at it all that much, you just keep looking outside and enjoy the view. Now on a long cross country with the autopilot flying and all the engine instrumentation in a nice, compact setup that allows me to adjust for LOP operations, monitor all the engine functions and adjust as needed I find the EFIS invaluable. I think in a nutshell I can say that on long trips with an auto pilot, the EFIS allows you to better "manage" the flight. So in essence you act as the flight manager/pilot. It is just another tool that you may or may not find fits your idea of flying. My very good friend has a Super Cub, minimal instrumentation...and it's pure fun flying at it's best. It has no EFIS and is blast to fly. His only regret is that he can't do what we as experimental builders can do...install and EFIS...go figure. Now I've come full circle.
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  #16  
Old 04-06-2010, 11:50 PM
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Build9A Build9A is offline
 
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Location: Shellmans Bluff, GA
Posts: 517
Default great comments

A lot of great comments and advice. I'll probably stick with the steam gauges if I only come across $4000. But if I come into some serious cash, I'll probably spring for the glass just to have a more modern airplane and look cooler. My wife or kids will have to sell my plane. Don't plan on having another one. So the glass might help their bottom line. thanks to all of the posters.
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  #17  
Old 04-07-2010, 01:02 AM
Rainier Lamers Rainier Lamers is offline
 
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Location: Somerset West
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Build9A View Post
A lot of great comments and advice. I'll probably stick with the steam gauges if I only come across $4000. But if I come into some serious cash, I'll probably spring for the glass just to have a more modern airplane and look cooler. My wife or kids will have to sell my plane. Don't plan on having another one. So the glass might help their bottom line. thanks to all of the posters.
If you don't want to spend $4000 and still want an all singing and dancing EFIS (actually, it's more $$ once you start adding up all the bits) - there is only one answer: WAIT.

EFIS systems are getting better - FAST.
EFIS systems are getting cheaper - FAST.

This year is going to be a lot of fun...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
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  #18  
Old 04-07-2010, 08:47 AM
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flion flion is offline
 
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Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Adamson View Post
However, I'm aware of quite a few cases in which VFR pilots found themselves in predicaments, they hadn't planned on. Out here in the mountain region we get whiteouts & low clouds that can sneak up on the unwary. And it's this suddenly rising terrain that bites the pilot and passengers. Some were in darkness, but others in daylight hours. In situations such as these, synthetic vision would be marvelous (once it has all the data), but my Garmin 696 would have made all the difference too.
Yeah, my BMA has the synthetic vision and it looks very nice but I don't pay a lot of attention to it. For one thing, depending on the scale you have the display at, the accuracy may not be sufficient. Also, it does not show general obstruction - don't fly too close to the terrain or you may impact a tall tree! I'll admit it was a comfort factor flying out of Sedona one night; it showed the canyon walls well to the sides and, quickly, below me. But I didn't trust it or relax until I saw the lights of KFLG a few seconds later. EFISs, SV or not, are great for quick orienteering and general position awareness but they are, in the end, just an instrument. My biggest concern with glass is that people will fall into the "it's a computer, so it must be right" trap.

That said, and having studied the failure modes of my EFIS in much the same fashion as I did partial panel for my PVT, I really enjoy flying behind glass. I'm planning a Garmin 900X for the -10.

By the way, I just realized another benefit of glass. I had great difficulty in night flying in seeing my instruments. Panel lighting in 152s generally sucked. That night flight from Sedona I mentioned? I turned down the display and could still read it perfectly and yet my outside vision was still adequate (not much to see on a dark night in the mountains except lights). I haven't done much night flying since getting the RV airborne but that experience sold me; I actually got to enjoy the flight rather than struggling to see my instruments.
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  #19  
Old 04-07-2010, 10:01 AM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Default You big tease

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainier Lamers View Post
If you don't want to spend $4000 and still want an all singing and dancing EFIS (actually, it's more $$ once you start adding up all the bits) - there is only one answer: WAIT.

EFIS systems are getting better - FAST.
EFIS systems are getting cheaper - FAST.

This year is going to be a lot of fun...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
O.K., Rainier, now you have done it.

What do you have up your sleeve???
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  #20  
Old 04-07-2010, 10:25 AM
gpiney gpiney is offline
 
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Maybe This?

http://www.mglavionics.com/html/xtreme.html
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