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  #61  
Old 04-05-2010, 10:47 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
Question Is a primer line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Lee View Post
Bandit, some believe that primer lines are not needed. Consider trying starting your engine by starting the prop turning (engage starter), then a quick throttle pump. Sometimes take two separated by several seconds.
...a major fire hazard in flight?

They are not pressurized, so if there is a rupture, little should squirt (dribble) out, and the volume of fuel in them is minimal.

They seem a quite different hazard from the same 1/8 copper lines that feed a mechanical fuel pressure gauge.
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EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ

Last edited by az_gila : 04-09-2010 at 10:41 PM. Reason: spelingg
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  #62  
Old 04-05-2010, 01:40 PM
Bevan Bevan is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 1,674
Default fire shield

I've been thinking of "fire shielding" a lot lately. Has anyone considered adding a thin sheet of stainless riveted over the lower fuselage skin (on the outside) between the firewall and the spar? The idea is to prevent burn through of the alum skin not necesarilly radiated heat transfer to the cabin floor area. If there's a fuel fire, i'm thinking that all the fire will exit the bottom cowl (at first anyway) until the fuel is burned away. I'm also considering a "fire detector" mounted in the cowl exit area as well and connecting it to a spare EIS input, just to get my attention sooner.

Bevan
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  #63  
Old 04-05-2010, 04:16 PM
midwest rv-10's Avatar
midwest rv-10 midwest rv-10 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pleasant Prairie,Wisconsin
Posts: 67
Default Fireshield

Bevan,
I would suggest you do a search under fireproofing and or firewall and see the ground already covered on this. Dan Horton has tested several types of flame resistant/retardant products. After seeing his results I too got thinking about my choice of firewall product and decided I had installed the absolute worst thing out there. Over the winter I removed all of the nameless black sound deadener with aluminum foil backing and installed 1/2'' ceramic blanket and covered it with .002 stainless steel foil, and used foil tape to hold it in place on the cabin side of the firewall. The ceramic blanket runs about 12" on to the floorboard also to protect from the floor burning through as was reported to occur during a fuel fed fire. I'm not saying my solution is the perfect way but way better than what was there. I have noticed significantly less heat transfer from the engine side. Thanks Dan, for getting alot of us thinking about proper firewall insulation/protection.

Don Orrick
RV-10 N410JA
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  #64  
Old 04-06-2010, 09:29 PM
wrongway john wrongway john is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: TX & CO
Posts: 465
Default

I?ll be sure and revisit this thread when it comes to the FWF on my 4. We had this plane last week catch on fire in my hometown. Once it was put out, there was nothing left of it. This guy was luckily taxiing and was able to get out. Gosh, at any altitude at all, it seems like there isn?t much time. This will sober you up real quick!

http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/...s-small-plane/
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  #65  
Old 04-08-2010, 04:37 AM
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fodrv7 fodrv7 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Torquay, Victoria, Australia
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Default Two Bottles

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetjok View Post
I am only speaking for the procedures at my carrier, but we shoot the bottle immediately after shutting down the engine, closing the fuel, hyd, pneumatic shutoff valves, and opening the generator relay. Then we wait 30 sec to see if the fire goes out. If not, then we discharge the other bottle. If the fire is still not out, we will be landing shortly at the nearest piece of concrete, irrespective of our current weight!!
I am sure that is standard procedure in airliners, as promulgated in the manufacturers manual.
And it's great . . . if you have TWO(2) fire bottles.
If not (i.e. You only have one) I would wait thirty seconds for the fuel supply to the fire to diminish after shutting off the fuel, before firing the one and only bottle.
Pete.
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  #66  
Old 04-09-2010, 10:35 AM
Akutan Bandit Akutan Bandit is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Klamath Falls, OR
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
...a major fire hazard in flight?

They are not pressurized, so if there is a rupture, little should squirt (dribble) out, and the volume of fuel in them is minimal.

They seem a quite different hazard from the same 1/8 copper lines that feed a mechanical flue pressure gauge.
After doing some more reading on this I'm going to leave my copper line. Gil is right regarding the lack of fuel in this line imo, plus a coiled copper line (coiled for flex) seems to be a decent standard application in aircraft. I'm going to firesleeve my sending unit line however.

I'd like to say that any type of fire sensor in the engine compartment is better than nothing, but I've seen some poor ones. In the old 99's I flew a while back we had optical smoke sensors, and they would come on quite often when in IMC conditions because they were seeing clouds and telling you it was smoke. Very confidence inspiring when on a low IFR approach at night to have both fire lights go off at the same time.

What about a simple twisted wire pair wired to a circuit lamp in the cockpit? That seems elegant and reliable. These are mentioned in the forums in multiple locations.
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  #67  
Old 04-12-2010, 11:13 PM
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Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akutan Bandit View Post
....What about a simple twisted wire pair wired to a circuit lamp in the cockpit? That seems elegant and reliable. These are mentioned in the forums in multiple locations.
I've got something similar to that mounted at the cowling air exit. Two loops of solder on blocks connected in parallel. If they both melt, light comes on.
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Houston
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  #68  
Old 08-21-2010, 09:02 PM
seatssss seatssss is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: bristol,tn
Posts: 36
Default

copper lines are no place for aircraft
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  #69  
Old 08-22-2010, 06:10 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,589
Default teflon hoses and firesleeve

From a newbee, but one that builds alot of hoses for vaious things---
I've seen several planes with just the fuel supply hoses firesleeved, not the pressure to sender, or any of the other hoses firewall forward. There is a picture on this thread of a flow transducer mounted othe firewall, that could be exposed. Not having built a RV, but having been invloved in plumbing some, we have taken potential "heat related incidents" seriously. Steel braided teflon is the way to go, BUT, remember that the liner is teflon and can withstand a fluid temp of 450*----but can also melt rapidly if exposed to heat sources. An unprotected oil hose, or fuel pressure hose is asking for trouble.
Now, (remember that I'm a newbee) aluminum tubing has been in use for decades, and properly routed, flared, and in some cases protected, should last for the lifetime of the airplane. But, like that been stated on this thread, aluminum burns rapidly, as do AN aluminum fittings. I guess my question would be if stainless tubing in appropriate locations would better, even though its alittle heavier?
Tom
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Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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  #70  
Old 08-22-2010, 06:00 PM
taflores taflores is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Posts: 52
Default

I have to re do my fire sleeve in the engine compartment, the clown who sold me my RV-7 did the crapiest job, I can't beleive he flew it that way, guess he did not care, what a dork.
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