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  #51  
Old 03-20-2010, 07:07 AM
RV4 N21471 RV4 N21471 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I just talked to James Ball with ECI, and he explained to me that if you have a "certified" aircraft ECI will exchange your effected cylinders. If you have an experimental aircraft ECI will only "rework" your effected cylinders.
It seems to me that I paid the same for my cylinders as anyone with certified engines did.
Are there any legal experts out there that can advise those of us with effected cylinders on experimental aircraft if a class action lawsuit is an option? It sure appears to me that we are being discriminated against. Is it poss. E.A.A. would assist?
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  #52  
Old 03-20-2010, 07:26 AM
RV4 N21471 RV4 N21471 is offline
 
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I just spoke with James Ball from ECI. He told me that if you have effected cylinders on a "CERTFIED" aircraft you get replacement cylinders. If you have effected cylinders on an "EXPERIMENTAL" aircraft they rework and return your existing cylinders. I for one see this as I paid the same for my effected cylinders as the "CERTIFIED" owners did and feel I should be treated the same. Are there any legal experts out there reading this that would have an opinion as to whether this would qualify for a class action lawsuit as it appears to me we "EXPERIMENTAL" owners are being discriminated against. Is it poss. E.A.A. would assist?
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  #53  
Old 03-22-2010, 10:13 AM
Fallalloveryou Fallalloveryou is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 27
Default ECI Kit engine

The AD applies to lycoming engines that had replacement cylinders. Does anyone know if it applies to an all ECI Titan engine kit ?
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  #54  
Old 03-22-2010, 11:02 AM
Tomasz Tomasz is offline
 
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Location: North Liberty, IA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV4 N21471 View Post
I just spoke with James Ball from ECI. He told me that if you have effected cylinders on a "CERTFIED" aircraft you get replacement cylinders. If you have effected cylinders on an "EXPERIMENTAL" aircraft they rework and return your existing cylinders. I for one see this as I paid the same for my effected cylinders as the "CERTIFIED" owners did and feel I should be treated the same. Are there any legal experts out there reading this that would have an opinion as to whether this would qualify for a class action lawsuit as it appears to me we "EXPERIMENTAL" owners are being discriminated against. Is it poss. E.A.A. would assist?
On one of the aviation podcasts there was an interview with Amy Laboda. She and her husband has na RV-10 and they had those B cylinders bought as certified. They have heard from ECI the same story you do, but then they researched and found out that there is official FAA document stating that if cylinder came from factory with serial number as certified cylinder it doesn't matter if it's put on certified or experimental engine, all the ADs and SBs apply. The thing is that 'the FAA is not in habit of enforcing this' when it comes to experimental aircraft/engines. They followed up on this document with they lawyer and got replacement cylinders from ECI and their RV-10 is now flying again. So I think everybody should try to follow this path.

You can listen to her here: http://uncontrolledairspace.com/wiki...php?id=ucap174 (about half the episode).
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  #55  
Old 03-22-2010, 01:46 PM
RV4 N21471 RV4 N21471 is offline
 
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Default wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Cole View Post
I doubt if you paid as much as the "CERTIFIED" owners did for your "EXPERIMENTAL" cylinders. That's what makes the experimental kit engines such a good deal.
You would be guessing "WRONG". When you order cylinders, you buy the same exact cylinder as a "Certified" engine would use. E.C.I. does in fact now offer "Experimental" cylinders with tapered cooling fins on the barrel, but these are not what we are discussing. Mine are in fact "Certified" cylinders that just happen to be on an "Experimental" aircraft. And I did in fact pay the same as owners of "Certified" aircraft did.
By the way, I never said I had "kIT" engine. I run a Lycoming O-360 A4M.

Last edited by RV4 N21471 : 03-22-2010 at 02:19 PM. Reason: to make correction
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  #56  
Old 03-22-2010, 10:05 PM
jcbarker jcbarker is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 133
Default update

I thought it was time for an update. The story is not good. ECi has had my cylinders since Feb. 12th. I still don't have them. They are now telling me April 12th. Two months? Did I mention that my airplane was done waiting for inspection? Don't mean to whine. Sorry. So, my conclusion is that as an owner of an "experimental" engine I am getting treated as a second class citizen. If this had been a certified install I would by flying by now. I have taken this up with Aero Sport Power as Bart and Sue built my engine. Sue is going to see what she can do for me. I'll let you know how that goes.
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  #57  
Old 03-23-2010, 04:24 AM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
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My cylinders arrived at ECI on Jan 22. I still do not have them back and of course I am not happy about that. In retrospect mine are in the "A" group and I could have flown with them as they were until the stampede was over with. It was my hope that I was in early enough that the wait would not be so long. While I am not defending the delays the reason that I have ECI cylinders is a bad experience with Lycoming jugs. Step back in time to 10 years ago. There were no ECI jugs, no Superior jugs, just Lycoming. They were more expensive then they are now and of not very good quality; try complaining to a company that has no competition. My last brand new Lycoming cylinders, at that time, had to be flow matched to be even close to running right. Three of the cylinders had so much flashing stuck between the fins that the cooling air could not circulate. I had to file/drill the flashings out and lo and behold I came up with at least a tablespoon of casting sand on #5. I called Lycoming about this and all I got was... silence.
Superior came out with new castings, they were beautiful, ECI came out with jugs and they were a great improvement over Lycoming castings. In fact they were so much better that my engine re-builder sold his flow bench as he found it was not necessary with the new cylinders. Lycoming cylinders suddenly were able to get better after years of so what.
Am I happy about delays at ECI, no way, am I happy they are in business, you bet!
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Last edited by Tom Martin : 03-23-2010 at 04:28 AM.
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  #58  
Old 03-23-2010, 07:20 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Really good post Tom - exactly my feelings on the topic! I have been in this aviation game a LONG time, and with the old Lycoming monopoly, cylinders were always an issue. I'm quite happy flying with my Group A cylinders for now - should I have a problem down th line, I can take action after the "rat is through the snake" at ECI. I understand why people are upset, and I would be as well if my airplane were grounded. But given the alternatives, ECI still looks pretty darn good to me.
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  #59  
Old 03-23-2010, 07:52 AM
KirkGrovesRV8 KirkGrovesRV8 is offline
 
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Location: Paradise,Pa S37
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I feel kinda silly posting this because I know the collective wisdom is much greater than my own but just as a point of reference. I had four group A cylinders... compression on all of them were good, I sent them in anyway because it was the right thing to do for me. Turns out 2 of my cylinders were cracked a supercub at my airport had a group A cylinder on it and he had an off airport landing when his group A cylinder head blew apart.
Just be careful
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  #60  
Old 03-23-2010, 08:53 AM
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TomVal TomVal is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC & CA
Posts: 907
Default New vs Repaired

I just got off the phone with Jim Ball at ECI. One of my questions was, even with repaired cylinders, until the FAA approves the repair, are we still tied to the inspection requirements of AD 2009-26-12? His response was, “Your engine is in the experimental category….” I guess you could read between the lines on this one.

I am sitting on the fence as to whether to send the cylinders in for repair, or simply to purchase all new. My previous luck with cylinder repair hasn’t been good. More than once, I've had to return a cylinder for re-work. At any rate, Jim is sending me the boxes. In the mean time, I’m mulling this over ($$$).

For those of you who have been waiting for your cylinders, Jim mentioned that they are finally spooled up for the production re-work of the cylinders. He mentioned that some customers have been waiting over 8 weeks for repairs. Once they get through the backlog, they are estimating a turn-a-round time of 21 days.

Regards,
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Last edited by TomVal : 03-23-2010 at 03:11 PM.
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