VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > RV General Discussion/News
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 05-09-2008, 09:48 PM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Johns View Post
The devil is in the details in all endeavors such as this, but several bio-fuels are being investigated for gasoline replacement. Dimethylfuran, (or DMF) for one has the potential to be a good aviation fuel. I don't think this is the one that Swift is talking about, since DMF is the same BTU per volume as gasoline, not 15% better. Still, equal to av-gas is a lot better than ethanol at -30%.

Making a new synthetic fuel refinery / factory is enormously capital intensive. Probably best to start small, like with the GA marketplace.
Pundits are saying we may see oil at $200 barrel soon. Some very good alternative fuels could emerge as a result. They won't be cheap but neither will 100LL.
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-04-2010, 01:00 AM
SHIPCHIEF SHIPCHIEF is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,412
Default

A 'lift' from the EAA webpage:
February 25, 2010 ? Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University announced plans this week to phase in lead-free biofuel produced by Swift Enterprises for use in its training aircraft, the nation?s largest (95 aircraft) collegiate fleet. Swift fuel is a renewable biofuel synthesized from sorghum that has been successfully tested by the FAA Technical ...
It's real and it's comming to an Embry-Riddle near you.
100LL is the highest priced gasoline in the US, the consumption of which SWIFT believes can be met by their planned output.
Now that ethanol is in virtually all mogas, I'd pay full 100LL price for a no lead fuel that has more power or more range, wouldn't you?
Soon we will find out how well it stores, how fuel systems tolerate it, if it causes skin rash, or smells bad.
__________________
Scott Emery
http://gallery.eaa326.org/v/members/semery/
EAA 668340, chapter 326 & IAC chapter 67
RV-8 N89SE first flight 12/26/2013
Yak55M, and the wife has an RV-4
There is nothing-absolute nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing around with Aeroplanes
(with apologies to Ratty)
2019
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-04-2010, 09:53 PM
glenn654 glenn654 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 592
Default

IIRC, the original sales pitch claimed a fairly lower price than 100LL...
That's what gets my motor going. I would love to be able to fly more.
Hope this stuff works.

Glenn Wilkinson
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-05-2010, 06:11 AM
dmaib's Avatar
dmaib dmaib is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 1,339
Default

David Perme, the CEO of Swift Fuels spoke at the EAA Chapter 288 monthly meeting last month. He gave a pretty good picture of where the company is at this time. They have signed the agreement with Embry Riddle and also have test programs going with Cessna, Cirrus, and Lycoming, IIRC. He seems confidant that they will be able to ramp up production utilizing existing facilities, when the product is ready to market. He was cautious about retail cost, but said that they were confident that it will be competitive with 100LL.
The fuel is a bit heavier than 100LL, but puts out more BTU's per gallon. So far, testing has shown no adverse affects on existing engine components, seals, o-rings, etc.
__________________
David Maib
RV-10 N380DM
New Smyrna Beach, FL
VAF Paid 1/21/2020

"In '69 I was 21, and I called the road my own"
Jackson Browne





Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-05-2010, 07:01 AM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,551
Default

Somebody in this thread mentioned that it hadn't flown yet. It has actually. There was an RV (-4 I think?) at Oshkosh last summer that flew in with it. They also flew a bonanza and a couple others in tests. Their formal test program hasn't begun yet. To be a 100LL replacement, the formal test program has to be approved by someone other than Swift - like ASTM or FAA maybe? Don't know for sure, but I get email updates from them occassionally. I am on the list as possible test aircraft when the time comes. I think one way it can be viable as a business is that it should cost less to distribute. It can go through the same underground lines as automotive gasoline. 100LL cannot. They also say they only need about 400 square miles of farmland to produce the biomass necessary for full 100LL replacement. The plant product may be either flax seed oil, or sorghum. Flax was their original crop mentioned in their posts, but I've read that the Canadian flax has been contaminated with some rogue seeds from Europe that have affected production. I also read about another 100LL replacement experimental fuel on the AOPA or EAA website (don't remember) that shows promise, so there's competition. Anyway, until Swift or anybody comes up with a formal test program and a business plan for production/distribution, we don't need to get too excited. What we do need to get nervous about is what will happen if nothing is found.
Scott
__________________
SH
RV6/2001 built/sold 2005
RV8 Fastback/2008 built/sold 2015
RV4/bought 2016/sold/2017
RV8/2018 built/Sold(sadly)
RV4/bought 2019 Flying
Cincinnati, OH/KHAO
JAN2020

Last edited by Ironflight : 03-05-2010 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Removed phrase with political commentary
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-05-2010, 04:07 PM
ajay ajay is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 88
Default

400 sqnm is only 20nm by 20nm. Just a point of reference, Rhode island our smallest state is 1600 sqnm. This is hardly going to make a dint in our food production capacity. Which is why 100LL makes for an attractive market for alternative bio-fuels. Mogas on the other hand is not.

ajay
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-05-2010, 10:40 PM
Neal@F14's Avatar
Neal@F14 Neal@F14 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 2,182
Default

Is this "Swift Fuel" just biobutanol, or perhaps some butanol blend?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanol_fuel
__________________
Neal Howard
Airplaneless once again...
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-06-2010, 06:42 AM
dmaib's Avatar
dmaib dmaib is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 1,339
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal@F14 View Post
Is this "Swift Fuel" just biobutanol, or perhaps some butanol blend?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanol_fuel
Here is a link to their website that will answer most questions. http://www.swiftenterprises.net/Swift%20Fuel.html

No ethanol and no petroleum in the product.
__________________
David Maib
RV-10 N380DM
New Smyrna Beach, FL
VAF Paid 1/21/2020

"In '69 I was 21, and I called the road my own"
Jackson Browne





Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:57 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.