Thoughts on Zip Ties in engine compartment

[Rick6a]

Originally Posted by Ted RV8

......I was told by judges that having zip ties firewall forward was against FAA regs........

That statement makes absolutely no sense to me. According to those judging standards, Lycoming has been wantonly violating FAA regs for years because the hardware bag it includes with each new engine purchase contains a generous number of zip ties. A few zip ties are even installed on the shipped engine. Are we to suppose those judges more technically informed than Lycoming?




If what you claim is true, those judges are merely enforcing a capricious, arbitrary standard designed to massage their collective sensibilities. If it gives them the warm and fuzzies, fine. It is after all, their game, their rules. But a line is crossed when anyone, including a beauty contest judge shamelessly claims it is "against FAA regs."

BTW, check out the picture in latest edition of Plane and Pilot magazine. What is apparent (given the timely resurrection of this thread) is that the Plane & Pilot FWF restoration includes plentiful use of zip ties and some are even used in places you might not expect:

http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/airc...-part-iii.html

[Sticky1]

After reading thru most of these posts one thing really stands out. No one has mentioned the proper way to install ty wraps. Maybe the problems you are seeing is because the wiring is running parallel with the mount tubing ty wrapped with one ty wrap. Of course this method will present a problem.

Adel clamps are the best but not always practical.

So..... whenever ty wrapping always use 2 ty wraps. One goes around the wire and tubing and the other goes around the ty wrap between the wires and tubing to form a figure 8. This way the ty wrap is very tightly clamped to the tube and the wires are tightly hung away from the tubing.

[minute2]

I think one thing that hangs people up on this wear question is that they look at a ziptie and think: "plastic", and plastic is "softer" than metal and so it will not wear metal. The hi-temp ziptie, however, is Nylon 6/6. Think: ballistic fiber. Nylon is very strong and very abrasive and if relative motion occurs between nylon and metal the nylon will absolutely wear the metal (and the metal will wear the nylon). This is not new engineering and it is well documented, however, there are many variables (oil and dirt ?, etc...) that affect the wear rate that it is entirely conceivable that one may not see any wear while someone with seemingly the same situation might see lots of wear.

Kerry Stevens
M.E.

[Pilottonny]

So far I have seen certified engines with Zip-ties, I have seen certified aircraft with zip-ties, but still no pictures of the claimed damages!!!

Anybody??

Regards, Tonny.

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by Pilottonny

So far I have seen certified engines with Zip-ties, I have seen certified aircraft with zip-ties, but still no pictures of the claimed damages!!!

Okay, okay, enough already... Here are photos of mine... Taken during the swap to Adel clamps. The ones I couldn't swap I changed to a combination of a sacrificial electrical tape layer plus a new zip tie on top:

http://picasaweb.google.com/rob.prior/20100211TieWraps

In all cases except for the one on the firewall where you can see a little bit of rust, the tie wraps had oil trapped under them when I removed them.

[Toobuilder]

A buddy is installing a new O-320 on his Pacer, so being interested in making a "hangar inspection/stop work" visit (and because the engine used to be mine), I checked it out. The FWF was beautiful, including the brand new engine mount. I asked him about the new mount because the O-320 swap should not have required one. Turns out that once the engine was stripped off and the old mount was inspected, it was found to be worn beyond limits in a few areas... Can you guess what caused the damage?

...Zip ties.

No pictures available and I didn't see it for myself, but I don't think the guy made up the story to justify buying a new mount.

Just another data point...

[JonJay]

I have a short handful of zip ties holding light weight items like the blast tubes. No sign of chaffing, wear, or even a minor scratch on the motor mount. Paint is perfect.
If someone lets anything go long enough to saw through the powder coating or paint, then long enough to actually saw into the steel, shame on them....

[Rupester]

Is no one else amazed that a simple topic like zip-ties could spawn a thread with 72 posts ?!? (now 73!) Talk about a topic with legs ...

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by JonJay

If someone lets anything go long enough to saw through the powder coating or paint, then long enough to actually saw into the steel, shame on them....

You're right, but the catch is noticing that there's a problem. Two of the ties I removed were snug and wouldn't move by hand, but one had rust under it that wasn't visible until the tie was removed. The other had exposed metal, and some oil. Neither the metal nor the oil were visible until the tie-wraps were removed to check.

They hold quite well, and the tie-wraps themselves showed no signs of deteriorating in the engine compartment, despite being both white and having plastic tabs. I even used some new ones that look just like it when I cleaned it all up. But I did put a sacrificial layer under them this time.

[Pilottonny]

Snowflake,

Finally some proof! How many hrs.? You obviously removed the adel clamps to check under there as well, right??!! Any damage under them?

Regards, Tonny.