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  #11  
Old 02-23-2010, 04:33 AM
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Jumbo Jumbo is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Muenster, Germany, Europe.
Posts: 142
Default WOW - feels good that so many people care about me ...

... ha, without joking: thanks for the valuable advice!!

As I am doing ca. 20 channel crossings per year I am serioulsy considering what you are saying. What I get from this is that I should
  • re-plan and take the shortest route over water (ca. 15 mins than vs. 55 mins) and refrain from the temptation to short-cut for the saving of 10 minutes of a 2 hrs trip (even if this means I will be going via France than - someone familiar with French ATC? )
  • get trained (mentally) on ditching and how to get out of the plane (physically with a training facility)
  • not over-rely on the rafts and other devices but look into the white water suits and wearing my life vest for sure on the tna 15 mins trip over the water.

So I will do that - thanks for comments; really cleared my mind!!

Cheers, Heinz
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Homebased Muenster-Telgte, Germany, Europe
a.) Eggenfellner H-6 powered 4-seat Robin, PH-ERD 325+hrs since SEP 2008 .... counting
b.) bought flying & sold: Vans RV-4 with O-320, PH-EIL .... very sad ending - lost a friend
c.) bought flying at 51 TT: Vans RV-3A, PH-URZ .... now at 150 hrs (and having fun )
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2010, 06:14 AM
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shuttle shuttle is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 368
Default Underwater Escape Training

I know the military/ex-military aviation folks here will likely have had plenty of opportunity to do underwater escape training on a regular basis. I don't think it's quite so common for the regular GA pilot.

Not long after I got my pilot's license I bought a share in a group-owned "Stealth Black" Cessna 150. It was a good group of guys that called themselves the Dirty Dozen. We used to organise various events, one of which was "Dunk Training". Now, nobody would accuse me of being a keen swimmer. I really don't like the water at all so I was more than a little uneasy about signing up to go along, but I did.

To cut a long story short, it was one of the most valuable flying-related training actvities I have ever done. It was definately NOT a nice experience for a poor swimmer but for giving you a tiny insight into what it might be like to ditch a small plane in the sea it was first rate.

The most import things I learnt were all about preparation for egressing the aircraft: have a plan; know intimately (with your eyes closes) where all the door/canopy/harness handles/controls are; get to know instinctively how to operate them (even work out what difference being upside down would make); be prepared for the shock of the cold water; timing, clarity of thought and speed of action are everything. And finally, in the words of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - DON'T PANIC!

You can read a write-up of the of the Dunk Training on the Dirty Dozen's website here: http://www.gbpax.org.uk/Images/dunkers/dunkers.htm



I'm the one in the red helmet (indicating I'm not a strong swimmer!).

The Underwater Escape Training was carried out with these folks in Swanwick, Hampshire, UK:
http://www.andark.co.uk/other-traini...r-escape/huet/

BOTTOM LINE:
If you ever fly over water and have never done this sort of training then book yourself on a course.
It might save your life one day.

Happy (dry) flying!
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West Sussex, UK
RV-7 G-HUTY (not flying yet)
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2010, 07:21 AM
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islandmonkey islandmonkey is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
re-plan and take the shortest route over water (ca. 15 mins than vs. 55 mins) and refrain from the temptation to short-cut for the saving of 10 minutes of a 2 hrs trip (even if this means I will be going via France than - someone familiar with French ATC?
The major problem I have found with French ATC is understanding them. All of us Brits love to hear a French woman talking English. But that changes when your trying to pass messages over the radio. I have had to ask French ATC to repeat messages because of their accent. This can lead to confusion and mis-understanding.

Take a look at this.

You can do a lot in advance to help yourself if you have any problems over water. For instance, the Brits are quicker to respond with a helicopter if you have to ditch. The normal handover point from French ATC to the Islandmonkeys is Mid-Channel. You can move the Mid-Channel point a bit closer to France (where is Mid-Channel anyway, its not shown on any maps) to be in contact with The Brits longer. I would also avoid talking to London Information. Talk to Manston Approach instead. The area covered by London Information is huge and the frequency can get very busy. Manston is much closer and they will scramble a chopper quicker.
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  #14  
Old 02-24-2010, 01:09 AM
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Jumbo Jumbo is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Muenster, Germany, Europe.
Posts: 142
Default don?t want to hijack this post but the link IS related to this topic ...

Anthony,

thanks - had a good lough with your link re the French. This one takes the pi$%§?ss out the us Germans - AND it is actually related to the topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOTpIVxji8

Yes, Manston is much better than London Information - however they have recently changed their frequency to 132.450 (don´t ask me how I know ....).

Cheers, Heinz
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Homebased Muenster-Telgte, Germany, Europe
a.) Eggenfellner H-6 powered 4-seat Robin, PH-ERD 325+hrs since SEP 2008 .... counting
b.) bought flying & sold: Vans RV-4 with O-320, PH-EIL .... very sad ending - lost a friend
c.) bought flying at 51 TT: Vans RV-3A, PH-URZ .... now at 150 hrs (and having fun )

Last edited by Jumbo : 02-24-2010 at 04:59 AM. Reason: spelling - again.
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  #15  
Old 02-24-2010, 01:39 AM
shiney shiney is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: York, England
Posts: 381
Default Brave

Single engine aircraft 55 mins over the North Sea in winter - wow Heinz, you're brave !

I'll be taking trips to Austria when my 7 is finished and the only route I like the look of is Calais - some people say "why? the aircraft doesn't know it's over water" ! true, but I do, and that's all that matters.....

good luck
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  #16  
Old 02-24-2010, 06:39 AM
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SlowJoe SlowJoe is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 39
Default Kayakers use dry suits all the time.

Anything that says "aviation" in the title costs about 3 or 4 times more. Try this:
http://www.kayakacademy.com/cgi-bin/...0&keywords=all

I've gone kayaking in the winter in one of these and been plenty warm. Better than nothing.
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  #17  
Old 02-24-2010, 11:23 AM
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Jumbo Jumbo is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Muenster, Germany, Europe.
Posts: 142
Default longer is saver ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiney View Post
Single engine aircraft 55 mins over the North Sea in winter - wow Heinz, you're brave !
good luck
.... or just stupid - don´t know really.

I have been a 1st officer on Cessna C414 and C421 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_421) when I was mid twenties (so already twenty years ago - time flies) and it always felt good to have two engines over sea which is today no option cost wise for me AND as said the channel crossing is the pretty much the only time I fly over water.

Have re calculated the direct route from EDLT to EGTR via Hamstede HSD, RIMBU to SABER (301 NM and 2:18 hrs with the Subaru Robin, 55 mins over water) vs. my usual route via Costa (COA), BULAM, Manston/EGMH (310 NM, 2:24 hrs, 35 mins over water) vs. the new route via Costa (COA), Calais (LFAC) to Dover/DVR (324 NM, 2:39 hrs, 10 mins over water).

Bottom line: 10 mins sweating vs. 55 mins sweating (in a life threatening situation in principal, no doubt) and in exchange of 15 mins longer flight time over all on a 2:30 hrs trip.

That is a no brainer, will go the longer but safer route (more ATC though and everytime a ´Bonjour Calais Tower …. here I come´: a German in a Dutch registered French built all wooden plane with a Japanese car engine which´s conversion was done in USA; better I don´t tell them the whole story ).

I wonder why I need a long conversation on a forum to come to that conclusion - sorry for pestering you all and thanks for the advice.

Heinz
__________________
Homebased Muenster-Telgte, Germany, Europe
a.) Eggenfellner H-6 powered 4-seat Robin, PH-ERD 325+hrs since SEP 2008 .... counting
b.) bought flying & sold: Vans RV-4 with O-320, PH-EIL .... very sad ending - lost a friend
c.) bought flying at 51 TT: Vans RV-3A, PH-URZ .... now at 150 hrs (and having fun )

Last edited by Jumbo : 02-24-2010 at 03:06 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-05-2010, 07:48 AM
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Noah Noah is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 937
Default

Anybody considering overwater ops should read this excellent paper regarding need for breathing air during escape. VERY thought provoking, and some good info on underwater emergency escape breathing systems.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...f&AD=ADA391786
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Noah F, RV-7A

All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men? for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible. -T.E. Lawrence
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