How many of you guys with IFR certified RVs use the capability?

[TSwezey]

Originally Posted by Tram

Thick haze and moonless nights are not quite IFR conditions..

Yes I know that but many people who are not IR won't fly in such conditions and many would suggest flying on a moonless night over the desert or water(JFK jr.) is like flying IFR.

[flickroll]

The -8 I bought last fall had been previously flying but disassembled when I bought it and was a basic VFR machine....SL40, Garmin GPS III, and basic engine instruments, but no AI (and very well built I might add by Jeff Jasinsky). About this time last year I sold a fully equipped Beech A36 and except for local boring holes in the sky flying (not really a good mission for the Beech), I almost always filed IFR for even short trips on CAVU days. I live near the Washington ADIZ, and flying in the ADIZ when IFR is a non event. VFR in that area I would think would be at least a little stressful. Non-ADIZ trips filed IFR assured me of radar coverage and traffic conflict resolution for the trip. When IFR you never get the dreaded 'too busy for flight following squawk VFR' message.

So when I started the rebuild of the -8 (getting close - Whirlwind 200RV prop mounted yesterday and first engine start will be today ), my goal for the plane was to be minimally IFR capable. I wanted to keep the weight down, but yet I wanted to be able to blast off through a cloud layer and/or descend through one. In the Beech I would fly low IFR if needed. For the -8, now equipped with an SL30/Garmin 696/Dynon EFIS D-100 & EMS D-120/Dynon autopilot, I will likely never attempt low IFR, and have yet to decide my personal minimums for the aircraft. That will come as I fly the -8 and see how it handles and how the equipment works, particularly the autopilot.

The point of this rambling is that by equipping your aircraft for IFR and holding the rating you will have options that you don't have with VFR. But, YOU have to decide if the cost/benefit ratio is worth it for you. For me it is, and my minimal panel will give me the options that I am looking for with this aircraft.

[BendRV-4]

My RV-4 is fully IFR equipped and I have used it in IMC conditions in the past. After a couple of stressful times in IMC, I have choosen to limit my IFR use of this aircraft. The tiny cockpit makes it nearly impossible to look at any charts for reference and without an autopilot, it requires a lot of "baby sitting" in the clouds. It's easy to get off altitude and heading while glancing at approach plates, etc. It would be easier with an auto pilot for sure. They do pack a load of ice though. I had a friend get loaded up with an inch of ice and it still flew relatively fine (definitely not recommended!) Beware of the horizontal stab / elevator area as any ice buildup can easily bridge this space between the elevator counterweight and the horizontal stab "freezing" up the elevator. Just bump the control stick now and then to free it up if.

[Flying Scotsman]

Originally Posted by TSwezey

Yes I know that but many people who are not IR won't fly in such conditions and many would suggest flying on a moonless night over the desert or water(JFK jr.) is like flying IFR.

I was taught that, rules be damned, if you have to fly by reference to instruments, whatever the cause, you're "IFR" and you'd be well advised to have that rating (and be current) and be *using* it right then.

I've been over water at night where there was no horizon, no moon, and it was damned dark...to me, that's instrument flight.

(Besides, if it's that dark, and with no horizon visible, how do you *know* what the visibility/ceiling actually is ).

[RV8R999]

no visible horizon (day or night) is IMC, which has nothing to do with IFR, except that to be legal you better be flying under the "rules" when in the "conditions" unless you are in the Navy flying low over the water .

a dark moonless or hazy night is every bit as challenging as being in the soup (without turb of course). In fact it can be more so especially in fairly unpopulated areas where the few cultural lights (houses, street lamps, etc.) cannot be distinguished from the starlight...so you see lights above you (stars) and lights below you (cultural) that can mess you up. This is even more evident when flying low altitude over the water at night with no visible horizon and is certainly IMC.

[RV8R999]

no such thing as an IFR certification for aircraft only pilots. It either has the required equipment as per FAR 91 or it doesn't.

[pierre smith]

......can be very difficult to navigate, as we found out ferrying two Cessna Agwagons from Wichita, one winter. All the ground was white and the snow flurries we flew through masked the horizon completely. We had to scan both sides to find a reference to be right side up.

Best,

[Ironflight]

Originally Posted by pierre smith

......can be very difficult to navigate, as we found out ferrying two Cessna Agwagons from Wichita, one winter. All the ground was white and the snow flurries we flew through masked the horizon completely. We had to scan both sides to find a reference to be right side up.

Best,

I'm guessin' that being Agwagons, they had pretty poor instrumentation - did they at least give you a cat and a duck as backup?!

[pierre smith]

...we'd then have an amazing bit of IMC capability! An old trick is to establish a steady speed climb up through the layer on an easterly heading (so you could see the bright area of the sun) if it's morning, keeping the ball centered with the ailerons (you roll it back to center) and keep the little wings level with the rudder (no yaw, no turn). There was a lot of uncontrolled airspace back in the 70's.

This past December in Reno, at our National Ag Aviation convention, Leland Snow had their new AT 1002, 1000 gallon hopper airplane there, Garmin 430W, Glass screens, Autopilot, Xpdr, and full IFR!! The first fully instrumented single-engined ag airplane I've ever seen. Pretty inexpensive to be so equipped when you figure the cost of the airplane will be around $2 million.

Yep, we did some crazy stuff those days.

Best,

[N55CU]

I built my 7 for somewhat comfortable IFR capability with Garmin 430W, SL30, autopilot with alt hold, G496 for wx, and in 280 hrs of a lot of cross country flying I have made about 6 approaches. However, the comfort in knowing that you can make an approach if you need to and that being on top is not an issue and not having to worry about whether an MOA is hot or not, or if there is TFR in your way or being able to depart when the only limiting factor is low vis that is burning off, all make for a much more useful airplane to me. My philosophy is that you are paying for our air traffic system and that you might as well use it!
Blue Sky's
Randy Utsey
RV-7 / N55CU
Charlotte, N.C.