Why VOR, or LOC, or GS?

[bizjet]

I wonder why anyone installs VOR, or LOC receivers on their aircraft. GPS is a legal substitute for all but Localizer navigation. Even if an approach says "ADF required", it's not - if you have GPS and a data base. Same with VOR and airway navigation. I understand localizer if you need 200 1/2 landing minumums, but otherwise, why bother? Just curious.

I haven't flown a raw ADF bearing, or VOR radial in years. Still do lots of ILS's, but that's it. The equipment available for experimental aircraft is truly state of the art and I wonder why anyone would use old stuff.

Regards,

Bill

[Paul Thomas]

If the GPS fails, it's nice to have backups. If I'm putting a LOC, which is a requirement for me in an IFR airplane (I love ILS's), it gives me VOR capabilities

[Jamie]

You make a good point and something that I've thought a lot about. I installed one because I want ILS capability and a backup to GPS. There are severals posts here on VAF where people tell the story of losing GPS signals on multiple GPS receivers due to DoD turning on selective availability of the signal -- especially out west when they are performing "war games".

[sglynn]

Check the AIM, but last time I did GPS was not named for VOR to VOR enroute. GPS is ok on an overlay for VOR approach. It is explicitly omited from the list for enroute on the airways. Reason, because they need error on the airways. GPS is just to accurate. Of course you can always go direct. But can you? Not around Class Bravo. If you transition Class B, chances are they will put you on an airway. Also to get your IFR ticket you need to shoot three approaches. GPS is one, ILS, and LOC I suppose would do. But a GPS gives you more fun. Another reason for a VOR is when you call 122.0 for weather, they like you to give your position realitive to a VOR. I suppose this is note written by a guy who learned on ADF and GPS. I'll bet I'm not convincing any GPS pilots. And maybe it doesn't matter because a Garmin 430 gives you legal IFR, plus a nav receiver. This one box gives you 5 approaches. wow 1) GPS, 2) ILS, 3) VOR, 4) Loc, 5) ADF (overlay)

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by Paul Thomas

If the GPS fails, it's nice to have backups. If I'm putting a LOC, which is a requirement for me in an IFR airplane (I love ILS's), it gives me VOR capabilities

I have this bad habit , of asking a large number of pilots, including everyday commercial pilots............just how often their GPS has failed. In reality, it's very seldom and only of short duration. Of course, there will be always be a few who have suffered longer failures but it's few and far between. In regards to GA airplanes, I can safely say that it's antenna problems more than anything else. Out of five aviation GPS's I've owned since the early ninties when GPS came on line for civilian use, I've only suffered one major outage, and that was a long time ago.

A good friend who fly's 737-800's for Delta has only had one momentary outage in the eight years he's flown them. And that was close to a restricted military area.

There you have it from my point of view. I'm a GPS fanatic, and could care less when VOR stations for flying point A to B are decommissioned. My backup is a second GPS, and if I get that hard up, I have a hand-held nav-com in the flight bag. Needless to say, my airplane is not IFR equipped, but I would like it to be someday.

To me, setting up VOR's to fly from point to point, is only something to repel boredom. Unfortunately, it means your head has to be in the cockpit, rather than scanning. Same for whiz wheels and triangulating positions on a sectional.

L.Adamson --- RV6A/ Garmin 696

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by Jamie

You make a good point and something that I've thought a lot about. I installed one because I want ILS capability and a backup to GPS. There are severals posts here on VAF where people tell the story of losing GPS signals on multiple GPS receivers due to DoD turning on selective availability of the signal -- especially out west when they are performing "war games".

I've heard that too. But then I fly out west, and am always around these military areas. It's been far too many years since my GPS has lost it's signal.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

[Auburntsts]

Mainly because I want a 430W and it comes as part of the navigator. I could just get a 420 (This has been discussed before in the GPS forum), but the cost difference is minor so there's no reason not to spring for the full-up 430 and get VOR/LOC/GS capability.

[Bob Axsom]

I don't have it, can't afford it and probably will not get it in the near future. VOR/LOC/GS work and I have them and use them - does that bother you an awfully lot? I'm sorry about that - NOT!

Bob Axsom

[Paul Thomas]

Originally Posted by L.Adamson

I have this bad habit , of asking a large number of pilots, including everyday commercial pilots............just how often their GPS has failed. In reality, it's very seldom and only of short duration. Of course, there will be always be a few who have suffered longer failures but it's few and far between. In regards to GA airplanes, I can safely say that it's antenna problems more than anything else. Out of five aviation GPS's I've owned since the early ninties when GPS came on line for civilian use, I've only suffered one major outage, and that was a long time ago.

A good friend who fly's 737-800's for Delta has only had one momentary outage in the eight years he's flown them. And that was close to a restricted military area.

There you have it from my point of view. I'm a GPS fanatic, and could care less when VOR stations for flying point A to B are decommissioned. My backup is a second GPS, and if I get that hard up, I have a hand-held nav-com in the flight bag. Needless to say, my airplane is not IFR equipped, but I would like it to be someday.

To me, setting up VOR's to fly from point to point, is only something to repel boredom. Unfortunately, it means your head has to be in the cockpit, rather than scanning. Same for whiz wheels and triangulating positions on a sectional.

L.Adamson --- RV6A/ Garmin 696

I've had a GPS failure and it lasted over an hour. I was the only plane in the area affected and only during that flight. The GPS had good satellite reception but, if I blindly followed it, I would have been making circles over the everglades. The scary part is this is in a certified bird with a certified IFR install... I was a green pilot and the lesson has stuck with me. While I most often go GPS direct, I ready to navigate without it anytime.

I'm putting it down as an anomaly being in the bermuda triangle (I've seen other weirder stuff), and my failure would be thrown out by someone doing a statistical analysis but it taught me a valuable lesson.

[apkp777]

Cheaper to install a VOR/LOC/GS than an approach/en route certified GPS. File /U but fly /G