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01-19-2010, 12:52 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Roma, Italy
Posts: 510
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Ward, may you explain to me please how to make those stand-offs? I would like the UHMW tape wrapping with the zip-ties installation and your stand-offs.
Thanks.
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RV4 IO-320, Catto 3-blade, Christen, I-BILT
Flight time: 1 hour
Status: test flights
www.rv4.it
ROME, Italy
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RV9A O-320 D1A, Hartzell C/S prop, slider, I-PRCA
Flight time: 350 hours
Status: SOLD
http://nuke.rv9.it
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01-19-2010, 02:32 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 164
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Stand-offs
Camillo,
I used 1/4" I.D. fuel line from an auto parts store and black zip-ties 8" long. Push one end of the zip tie through the fuel line, loop it around the wire bundle, then back through the fuel line and secure it around the engine mount tube or whatever you are using for support. I think that you want the connector end of the zip tie around the rigid support piece, not the wire bundle. You can cut the fuel line pieces to whatever length you like to make the stand-offs as long as necessary. Quick and easy, but, as I said, I wish I had thought about using the clear UHMW tape before I did this.
Hope this makes sense.
P.S. Love your website. I'm even learning a little Italian!
__________________
RV-7A Finish kit
Renewed 8-14
Last edited by vbpiper : 01-19-2010 at 02:39 PM.
Reason: added PS
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02-09-2010, 03:49 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilottonny
But??. If you have any proof, please show it here and I will eat a broom (typical Dutch saying)
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Will you accept pictures showing where cable ties have worn through the powder coat? I'm removing all cable ties FWF that bear directly on my engine mount, and will be replacing them either with Adel clamps or at the very least a wrap of self-vulcanizing rubber or silicone tape before a new tie-wrap goes on.
I've found half a dozen locations where the tie-wrap has worn through the paint. I don't want it to go any further.
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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02-09-2010, 08:42 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 3,821
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Short standoffs give you more room in the engine compartment. Like for reaching for that oil filter. I tape the mount, then loop a tie-wrap around the mount and what I want to hold. Then take anothet tye-wrap and wrap it around the first tye-wrap between the tubing and the part that I want to stand off. I pull that tye-wrap down snug to make a ring stand off. Then finish setting the main tye-wrap. CHEAP, CLEAN AND LITE.
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02-10-2010, 05:09 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 645
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Rob,
Were these tight, or was there room for movement? Yes sure show us pictures!
regards, Tonny
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"Pilottonny"
Tonny Tromp
Lanaken, Belgium (EU)
RV9A, Registration: PH-VAN
ECI-Titan IOX-320 with dual EI, turning a Whirlwind 200RV CS prop.
Sold
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02-10-2010, 07:35 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 2,053
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Mythbusters did a show on escaping from prison by using dental floss to saw through the iron bars. Using a motor to run the floss for hours the best they were able to do was a slight polishing of the steel. I suspect their results would have been the same if they were using Zip Ties.
Frankly, I don't have a problem with the zip ties cutting into the mount. I don't like the fact that they are not as strong as Adel clamps. Plus they are not nearly as fun to install as clamps. Especially in a cold Wisconsin hangar.
VDPIPER's picture looks GREAT to me. I am going to use both clamps and ties.
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Tony Phillips
N524AP, RV 9 (tail wheel)
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02-10-2010, 08:05 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lake St. Louis, MO.
Posts: 2,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apkp777
......I don't like the fact that they are not as strong as Adel clamps........
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Tony,
You'll have to convince me that strength is a legitimate issue. In a firewall forward application, zip ties are far stronger than required to do what they are asked to do. Weight is a much greater issue. Weigh a zip tie. Weigh an Adel clamp. To be completely fair, you MUST include the weight of a bolt or screw and washer and nut used to attach that adel clamp. Oftentimes, an adel clamp is the only way to go. But if the application is acceptable, I'd much prefer to use 10 zip ties than ten adel clamps. Certainly, some people will always quibble and challenge the overall weight advantage. What they fail to understand is in the aggregate and taken over the course of the build, seizing any and every opportunity to shave weight however slight, will pay off. Striving to eliminate unnecessary weight is a frame of mind, not an isolated incident.
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Rick Galati
RV6A N307R"Darla!"
RV-8 N308R "LuLu"
EAA Technical Counselor
Last edited by Rick6a : 02-10-2010 at 10:06 AM.
Reason: clarity
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02-10-2010, 10:00 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: S21, Oregon
Posts: 161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vbpiper
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Is there an actual need for the normal wires to be stood off the mount? Obviously the steel braided wires should be kept away from the mount, but I'm wondering if it would be acceptable to wrap the mount tube with 2 wraps of silicone rescue tape, then wrap the wire bundle with the same piece of tape directly to the tube (with the 2 passes of tape between teh tube and wires). Do this every 3" or so, and I would think you would have a tidy, secure wire run that would give you maximum access to other areas. Thoughts?
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Kelly
RV-7 empennage done, wings done, fuselage to QB stage.
1973 Maule M4-220C flying
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02-10-2010, 10:12 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Big Sandy, WY
Posts: 2,567
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Wow!
As a totally scarred A&P working on EVERYTHING from 757 & big G down to PA22's using actual baling wire to hold the radio stack (tubes), I find the core of this argument to be invalid. Newbies take note: We're not all like this. I've seen adel clamps chafed through engine mounts. I've seen P lines on multimillion buck turbines adel clamped to death every 6 inches with holes mooned in them from touching something cause the whole pile twisted. I've also seen 60-70 year old aeroplanes with copper tubing friction taped directly to a mount tube by the factory 3 generations ago & it's fine. This same craft would likely have a 6 pound 1/2 inch dia. braided ignition harness feeding it's massive 45 HP putt putt. Last thing like this made me mad was a 340 with new engine monitor harnesses wrapped in mik jug spyrogyra. By the time it got home to me, the spiral had completely melted into the new JPI harness along the side cowls and fused it into a unit. Each instance is different. Just don't do anything stupid, think beyond "never ever" and "Get er done".
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02-10-2010, 09:46 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 430
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For What It's Worth
Not going to get into the debate whether it's right or wrong to use them or not, but will tell of an experience when showing my plane at an EAA event.
I was told by judges that having zip ties firewall forward was against FAA regs. Mine were done just like the photo with the silicone tape wrap around the tube and the hose stand-offs.
Just as a reference I was also told having nylock nuts firewall forward was against FAA regs even though they were on the cold side and the regs say they are OK to use up to 230 degrees(if my memory serves me correctly).
I was also told my "N" numbers were illegal as they were on the rudder.
Now just to let you know my airworthiness was issued by the FAA not a DAR and they said everything was outstanding on the airplane.
I've also seen, at events, judges say that Torque Seal installed on the threads is a no no as it will(supposedly) corrode the threads and cause a failure. The Torque Seal had to be on the outside of the nut, not the threads.
So, all I'm saying is that if you are planning on showing your airplane you might want to consider what you use in that regard.
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