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  #1  
Old 02-09-2010, 06:48 PM
Bavafa Bavafa is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 3,351
Default IFR flying

I have been working on getting my ticket for IFR and hopefully will have my check ride in about a week. The hardest part so far for me has been the radio work and was wondering if any one has any suggestion in ways to get better at that. I have been listening to different approach/Tower etc on the Web and it is not as hard (though still miss a bit of it) since I am doing nothing but writing down instructions. But when you have to aviate (and in an RV is not the easiest thing) navigate and then get all the instructions, it becomes a hefty task for me. I am even wondering if I should continue, its like 90% done and 90% to go
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N825SM RV7A - IO360M1B - SOLD
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2010, 08:35 PM
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MSFT-1 MSFT-1 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 276
Default I wouldn't get too discouraged

A couple of things work in your favor as far as communications are concerned:

1) The controllers typically use a very standard format for clearances so once you get used to the format it isn't that difficult to understand what they are saying.

2) You can always ask them to repeat their transmission if necessary.

Don't be afraid to ask questions either. Often I have trouble finding VORs or other waypoints because I can't figure out how to spell them. If I can't find the waypoint on my chart, I just ask them to spell it.

Have a pad and a pen handy and write down what you hear (even if initially you don't understand it).

As far as approaches are concerned, study the plate before you get to the airport and try to visualize how the approach will work. Generally, the controllers will do exactly what you expect. Of course this isn't always true, I have been vectored through the final approach course in IFR weather a few times (and it definitely can get confusing).

If you feel you are behind the power curve talking to a controller, just say so. Unless you are in very busy airspace like around NYC or ATL, the controllers will work with you (within reason).

You will get more comfortable with comms as you get more experience. Like any skill, it takes some practice to get good at it. Make a habit to file IFR even on VFR days just to work on comms and navigation.

Lastly, I hope you have an autopilot if you fly IFR regularly. It makes all the difference in the world to have the autopilot when you are trying to find things on the chart, write down clearance changes etc.
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Richmond, VA (KFCI)
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  #3  
Old 02-09-2010, 08:35 PM
tturner tturner is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fayetteville, GA
Posts: 164
Default

You can go to liveatc.net and listen to live audio feeds from many airports and practice copying clearances. You did not mention if you have an autopilot. Single pilot IFR requires an autopilot in my book, especially in an RV.
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  #4  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:06 PM
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apkp777 apkp777 is offline
 
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Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 2,053
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Keep it up your almost there! The IFR ticket is one of the most rewarding of all.

Remember to read back headings, altitudes and clearances. So when they give you a string of info, clue into the HAC's.

Use your 5 t's (Turn, Time, Twist, Throttle and Talk).

Remember T.I.T (tune, identify and track) for all your en route.

Try to keep your situational awareness (not always an easy task). Visualize your position in relation to your destination.

Enter your holds with the least amount of turning possible. Know your winds aloft! Make rule of thumb estimates and crab into the wind accordingly.

Try to visualize all your approaches in advance. Know your altitudes! Don't go below. Keep you scan going, but don't fixate.

Your examiner doesn't expect perfection. Just use good, safe procedures. NOTHING had to be done instantly. Take one task at a time.

Throttle back. Take your time.
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  #5  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:17 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,145
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Experience is your best friend - there is no substitute for time in the saddle. DO NOT BE AFRAID to ask for a repeat, and don't feel afraid to tell them you are an IFR student. That will automatically grant you "student treatment" from the controllers and you will have an easier time picking it up. Even once you have your ticket, don't be afraid to ask for assistance. Most of these guys will go out of their way to assist if they have any idea you might need it.
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:44 PM
Bavafa Bavafa is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 3,351
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Thanks all for your good feedback. I do have an A/P but my instructor does not allow me to use it while learning. I know once I can delegate some of the tasks to the A/P, it would make a lot of difference. I have actually had less of an issue with the approach itself, mostly when the instructions comes in a rather longer string. Another thing that makes it much harder for me when I am actually in the cloud. I seem to do much much better under the hood then without it. Once I asked my instructor if I can keep the hood on when we were in the cloud? the answer was negative

Anyway, thanks in advance and I agree that there is no substitution for experience.
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2010, 10:24 PM
steveKs. steveKs. is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fowler, Kansas
Posts: 162
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Things are always easier when you know what to expect and radio work is no different. After you fly in the system a bunch you will be able to anticipate alot of what the controller is about to tell you.
writing a mnemonic down the page such as :
c (clearance limit)
r (route)
a (altitude)
f (freq)
t (transponder code)
s (special instructions)

gives you a heads up on what's coming next when receiving a clearance and using IFR shorthand like ^5000 means climb to 5000...the ^ is a arrow up but don't know how to do that on a computer, will help speed the writting and give you more time to think and listen.

Like the above mentioned if in doubt get clarification, that's what the pro's do.
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2010, 11:14 PM
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Garage Guy Garage Guy is offline
 
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Location: San Diego
Posts: 457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafa View Post
I have been listening to different approach/Tower etc on the Web and it is not as hard (though still miss a bit of it) since I am doing nothing but writing down instructions. But when you have to aviate (and in an RV is not the easiest thing) navigate and then get all the instructions, it becomes a hefty task for me.
A real key thing is to be ahead of what's happening, so you can expect what ATC is going to tell you. Then it gets a whole lot easier. There's a flow that you are fitting into, and when you get a feeling for what that is, the instructions become almost obvious. Situational awareness is a big part of that... "That last vector right to heading 180 has me about 90 degrees to the final approach course... so this is the base leg... next vector probably will be to intercept, with a descent altitude and the approach clearance..." Deviations from the flow happen, but the basic flow gives you the context to understand what they are, and ATC will usually point them out: "Fly heading 180, vector through the final approach course for sequencing, we'll get you back to it."

You mentioned listening to ATC on the web. One thing I find really helps to supplement that is to view the approach plates and STARs for the sector while you are listening to it. Pick a busy one like the Socal Approach 124.35 sector (streaming http://d.liveatc.net/kmyf_app.m3u) during afternoon rush. Then go to http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp and for KSAN download the Lyndi Two STAR and LOC 27 approach, the KMYF ILS 28R, the KSDM VOR-A, and the KSEE LOC-D. That one controller is handling an insane amount of traffic into all those airports, and the only way it can work is for everyone to be handled in as standard a way as possible. Looking at the approach plates, you can figure out what that is. You'll see that pretty much everyone at the same point is getting pretty much the same instructions from ATC... From the point of view of information theory, the bit rate is really quite low .
Quote:
I am even wondering if I should continue, its like 90% done and 90% to go
That's an easy one: definitely! Like every rating you get, it's really a license to keep learning.

--Paul
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  #9  
Old 02-10-2010, 12:50 AM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
Default Good Luck!

If you are nearing the check ride, I don't see any choice but to press on. It would be much better to have gotten your instrument rating in a docile Cessna 172 or Piper Archer then stay current in your RV. I had flown IFR for 20 years in my Piper Archer II including 15 years of flying to work every day in the LA basin never using the autopilot. I didn't think I would need it in my RV-6A so I didn't install one. For a little over a year I flew it IFR without an autopilot and it was a significant challenge (read very difficult). You are a superman to come as far as you have and you should not give up on the rating if the instructor approves you for the checkout by the examiner and you fail - it is likely that they have no appreciation for how much more difficult it is fly the RV under these conditions than a Cessna or Piper that plod along like a grazing cow. The rating can save your life and make your airplane more useful for travel. This past weekend the conditions around Fayetteville, Arkansas were at best marginal vmc and four people were killed in a Bonanza flying from Hot Springs for a Razorback basketball game (University of Arkansas). It is probably a good thing that the instructor is not allowing you to use your autopilot (probably required) because you more fully appreciate what is required and are more self reliant but it is a tall order for you to demonstrate smoothness and competence for the instructor and the examiner in your RV. Experience will make you better but it will never be easy.

Bob Axsom
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  #10  
Old 02-10-2010, 04:33 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafa View Post
I have been working on getting my ticket for IFR and hopefully will have my check ride in about a week. The hardest part so far for me has been the radio work and was wondering if any one has any suggestion in ways to get better at that. I have been listening to different approach/Tower etc on the Web and it is not as hard (though still miss a bit of it) since I am doing nothing but writing down instructions. But when you have to aviate (and in an RV is not the easiest thing) navigate and then get all the instructions, it becomes a hefty task for me. I am even wondering if I should continue, its like 90% done and 90% to go
First, please continue your IFR training. You'll regret it forever if you quit. Sometimes it's like trying to take a drink out of a fire hose. But one day it will click and start to become natural for you.

My other recommendation is to go visit a tower that has an approach control. You'll have to call in advance, but most towers are very accomodating. Be sure to identify yourself as a pilot doing IFR training. Meet the controllers, listen and watch them work for awhile. and share with them your radio issues. I'm sure they'll give you a few pointers from their perspective.


bob
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