Service Bulletin (RV-10 Install Door Safety Latch)

[Phil]

I guess that's kinda where I am too, David.

I don't see any problems with Vans acknowledging a problem and issuing a fix. Even if the motive is CYA.

Just think about the alternative. How would we feel if Vans would ignore a known problem and run off to put their head in the sand? In the mean time we're losing people and planes because they won't do anything to help.

Would we rather have a kit manufacturer that follows up on their designs, recognizes their flaws, and offers solutions? The question has already been answered with our wallet. Yes; that's why we pay more for a Vans kit.

When it gets right down to it, the root of 95% of the complaining is it's ugly. Most of the -10 drivers want something clean and integrated since we're all trying to build nicely finished cruisers. Everyone knows it's an improvement on the design, but we're trying to find excuses to keep the nasty booger from dangling off our airplane.

As I mentioned everyone is wanting a complete redesign of the door mechanics. But service bulletins aren't about redesigning the airplane; they're about offering a focused retrofit solution to solve a known problem. Those that were (or are) hoping for a complete redesign, you're out of luck.

On a side note, if Van did offer a redesigned door and made it mandatory I'm sure we'd all be complaining about spending time building, fitting doors, damaging paint, cutting interior, etc... But that's a hypothetical because it's not going to happen - from Vans at least.

Before everyone thinks that I'll be the first one to have the SB installed in my airplane, I can tell you I'm still undecided. I might design a solution of my own, there might be a CNC machined solution later on, or I might find a piece of certified hardware that accomplishes the task. So I'm still on the fence.

But I'm also the last person to be writing Vans and telling them they don't know what they're doing and they have no right to issue a retrofit solution for a known problem in their design. Especially when my real motive is to just get something that looks cleaner on the airplane.

Phil

[Deems Davis]

Originally Posted by Phil

So before I go and lose focus with this post, lets just stop right there.

Why is it a big deal?

Insurance !!

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by Deems Davis

Insurance !!

Exactly.

Can anyone imaging an insurance company paying a loss claim for a lost door now, unless the SB was installed.

Or, any accident claim caused by the door attempting flight without the rest of the airframe??

[Phil]

I agree with the insurance statement.

I also think we can agree on these two statement too.

Does it make the airplane safer?

Not completely proven; but probably.
It's as proven as any solution we can dream up.

Does it make the airplane any more unsafe?

Absolutely not.

I've yet to hear a good reason why it shouldn't be installed. Vans suggested the same thing in their e-mailed response yesterday. They haven't heard a good reason for not installing it either.

So what's the reservation with installing it if there's no downside? Is it ugly?

[crewrest65]

The thought that this does not apply to some RV-10 owners or builders is absurd. Every 10 owner has a stake in this issue!!
Obviously each builder can choose to comply with the SB or not, but by discussing the issue we have already generated multiple ideas that will make this a safer airplane in the long run.
We can continue to pretend that tightening up our vigilence and proceedures is enough to solve this problem, or we can accept the fact that doors will be lost unless an additional hardpoint latch is installed that prevents the doors from shifting in the door frame.
It has been enough of an issue to this point for Van's to get involved. You have to believe that insurance issues are soon to follow!! Take a look at the Lancair IV issues. They have had problems to the point where obtaining insurance is next to impossible. I would think every 10 owner would be concerned about elevating insurance premiums because of a known deficiencies and risk with regards to the doors!
If you think this thread about the doors is pointless/not relevant and not worth brainstorming some new designs, picture this. Your're flying your 10 with family on board, a gaping hole in the side, vibrating like an out of balance washing machine with everything not tied down whipping around the cabin! Your hoping the airplane stays together and you're wondering where your door went and who it hit on the ground! If and when you make it back on the ground and have time to reflect, you realize that no proceedures, door indicating system, or other warning devices would have been the FINAL failsafe in preventing the experience. If for whatever reasons these primary things failed on that not so perfect day, only a third hardpoint safety pin or latch would have kept the door from leaving the airplane!
Let's keep working this and sooner or later one of you smart guys out there will have a solution that will be beneficial to us all!

[RV10Rob]

Originally Posted by Phil

They haven't heard a good reason for not installing it either.

So what's the reservation with installing it if there's no downside? Is it ugly?

Off the top of my head:

• It's ugly
• It's another place for water to enter
• More drag
• More weight
• Makes egress more complicated
• More construction time

[RV10inOz]

If you do not like the current offering, design your own, just make sure it is as effective.

We did........about 12 weeks ago.

Is it an art piece...no. Is it effective, yes. Does it satisfy the intent of the SB, Yes. Does it poke out the side of the door...No.

If only I had some pics to post, if I remember to get some on the weekend I will.

DB

[Phil]

Looking forward to it, David.

I was wondering about putting a flush push button on the exterior to raise the latch.

Looking forward to your solution..
Phil

[jtrollin]

I felt like posting it here as well to get feedback on the idea.



It keeps the new latch (that I actually like) minus the tab on the outside of the door that is UGLY and a place for leaks. Not having the doors yet, not sure if it would be feasable.

thanks for the feedback,

[TSwezey]

Has been tested? When it has been tested to 190 knots I will then put it on. Until then I consider useless.