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01-16-2010, 10:32 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,564
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I wouldn't put that stuff in my lawnmower, let alone an aircraft engine. It will build up in small passages such as your lifter bodies and rocker arm passages which will starve critical areas of oil. I've got a few quart bottles that an engine builder gave me because he didn't want anything to do with it.
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Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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01-16-2010, 12:18 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
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Everything has an upside
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketbob
I wouldn't put that stuff in my lawnmower, let alone an aircraft engine. It will build up in small passages such as your lifter bodies and rocker arm passages which will starve critical areas of oil. I've got a few quart bottles that an engine builder gave me because he didn't want anything to do with it.
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Well if it goes bad I have an excuse for a high performance overhaul or higher power replacement - racers can't be complacent.
Bob Axsom
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01-16-2010, 12:26 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 1T7, Kestrel Airpark , Texas
Posts: 773
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F-150
My personal experience with PTFE involves using FRAM PTFE oil filters. A dose of PTFE was in the filter and it claimed to treat your engine when the oil picked it up, passing thru the filter.
The 5.4L engine on the F-150 needeed a teardown at 130k miles and the inside of the engine was most enlightening. Every small oil passage way was packed with PTFE "crud". It was caked up everywhere.
Microlon may be a different type of product, I don't know.
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Wade Lively
-8, Flying!
N100WL
IO-360A3B6D, WW 200RV
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01-16-2010, 04:43 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,587
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PTFE Crud
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8RIVETER
My personal experience with PTFE involves using FRAM PTFE oil filters. A dose of PTFE was in the filter and it claimed to treat your engine when the oil picked it up, passing thru the filter.
The 5.4L engine on the F-150 needeed a teardown at 130k miles and the inside of the engine was most enlightening. Every small oil passage way was packed with PTFE "crud". It was caked up everywhere.
Microlon may be a different type of product, I don't know.
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Even though Microlon did pass the FAA certification, it is, indeed, the same kind of stuff as plugged those passages. There is only one PTFE product that can keep the stuff in suspension and not in the oil filter and that is TUFOIL. See my post above. Even DuPont had to write a letter to the president of TUFOIL stating that their statements about Teflon in oil did not apply to his technology. I've seen the letter. Can Microlon help a given engine? Maybe. Should you use it? Maybe not!
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H. Evan's RV-7A N17HH 240+ hours
"We can lift ourselves out of ignorance, we can find ourselves as creatures of excellence and intelligence and skill. We can be free! We can learn to fly!" -J.L. Seagull
Paid $25.00 "dues" net of PayPal cost for 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 (December).
This airplane is for sale: see website. my website
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01-20-2010, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevansrv7a
Even though Microlon did pass the FAA certification, it is, indeed, the same kind of stuff as plugged those passages. There is only one PTFE product that can keep the stuff in suspension and not in the oil filter and that is TUFOIL. See my post above. Even DuPont had to write a letter to the president of TUFOIL stating that their statements about Teflon in oil did not apply to his technology. I've seen the letter. Can Microlon help a given engine? Maybe. Should you use it? Maybe not!
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If you actually read up on the Microlon product you'll find out that there is NO PTFE (Teflon) in the product and will not create any buildup. By the way, the way they got it approved by the FAA is by running an airplanes engine 11% above redline with no problems.
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01-20-2010, 07:04 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 483
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Bob,
If you find information that it could damage your engine I don't think anyone will try to hold you to your word regarding the test. This information in this thread is concerning and I'd be afraid to put it in my engine unless I was ready to tear it down.
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01-20-2010, 08:34 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,587
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PTFE or no PTFE?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirearmSystems.net
If you actually read up on the Microlon product you'll find out that there is NO PTFE (Teflon) in the product and will not create any buildup. By the way, the way they got it approved by the FAA is by running an airplanes engine 11% above redline with no problems.
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Petrolon, Slick-50 and Microlon, it is commonly believed, share the same origins. This link explains in detail. If Microlon does not contain PTFE then many authors including the linked one, are in error. One can Google many other internet articles to the same effect. Can I prove it has PTFE in it? No. Is it widely "known" that it does? Yes.
Microlon, on their site, claims that the product coats your engine internals so that you don't need to repeat with each oil change but that the coating is impervious to the chemicals and temps in the engine. Does that really seem reasonable to you?
Another source says:
"Among those oil additives containing PTFE are: Slick 50, Liquid Ring, Lubrilon, Microlon, Matrix, Petrolon (same company as Slick 50), QMI, and T-Plus (K-Mart) with many others not listed. While some of these products may contain other additives in addition to PTFE, all seem to rely on the PTFE as their primary active ingredient and all, without exception, do not list what other ingredients they may contain. By far the most damning testimonial against these products originally came from the DuPont Chemical Corporation, inventor of PTFE and holder of the patents and trademarks for Teflon. In a statement DuPont's Fluoropolymers Division Product Specialist, J.F. Imbalzano said, "Teflon is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives or oils used for internal combustion engines."
PTFE in oil additives is a suspended solid and it has other qualities besides being a friction reducer: It expands radically when exposed to heat. This can result in a clogged oil filter and decreased oil pressure throughout an engine.
This conclusion seems to be borne out by tests on oil additives containing PTFE conducted by the NASA Lewis Research Center, which said in their report, "In the types of bearing surface contact we have looked at, we have seen no benefit. In some cases we have seen detrimental effect. The solids in the oil tend to accumulate at inlets and act as a dam, which simply blocks the oil from entering. Instead of helping, it is actually depriving parts of lubricant."
Reports from tests conducted by researchers at the University of Utah Engineering Experiment Station involving Petrolon additive with PTF state, "There was a pressure drop across the oil filter resulting from possible clogging of small passageways." In addition, oil analysis showed that iron contamination doubled after using the treatment, indicating that engine wear didn't go down -- it appeared to shoot up.
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__________________
H. Evan's RV-7A N17HH 240+ hours
"We can lift ourselves out of ignorance, we can find ourselves as creatures of excellence and intelligence and skill. We can be free! We can learn to fly!" -J.L. Seagull
Paid $25.00 "dues" net of PayPal cost for 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 (December).
This airplane is for sale: see website. my website
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01-20-2010, 09:02 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirearmSystems.net
If you actually read up on the Microlon product you'll find out that there is NO PTFE (Teflon) in the product and will not create any buildup. By the way, the way they got it approved by the FAA is by running an airplanes engine 11% above redline with no problems.
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OK now I'm curious, where exactly can you read this? Not on the Microlon site. However they do post the FAA Acceptance letter, which basically says nothing bad happened when they tested the stuff:
http://www.microlon.com/PDF/FAAAcceptance1979.pdf
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Alan Carroll
RV-8 N12AC
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01-20-2010, 09:33 PM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,012
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Instructions say to shake the can before use. That tells me it's full of particles. IMO, don't even think about putting this stuff in your engine. Might be fine on a gun or other item, but don't use it in an engine with a circulating oil system.
Any additive that uses a suspension of "particles" - PTFE, PFA, TFE, etc., etc. - *is* setting you up for premature engine failure.
No substitute for clean oil, filter and maybe an antiwear or EP additive (e.g., Lycoming additive LW 16702) if necessary.
And the World's Fastest Indian is a great movie!
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Bryan
Houston
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01-20-2010, 09:36 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MONTGOMERY, TX.
Posts: 89
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MICROLON
I HAVE BEEN USING THIS PRODUCT FOR OVER 30yrs. IT WILL REDUCE FRICTION IN MOST ENGINES, GEAR BOXES, ECT. MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN VERY GOOD IN REDUCING WEAR, TEMPS AND OIL CONSUMPTION. I HAVE USED IT IN ENGINES FROM LARGE DIESELS, CONT., LYC., TO LAWN MOWERS.
THIS PRODUCT DOES NOT CONTAIN OIL. ALL PARTICALS ARE LESS THAN 5 MICRONS IN SIZE. YES IT SETTLES AFTER TIME ON THE SHELF BUT MIXES EASILY WITH AGITATION. YOU MAY CALL ME AT DenMac Aero 936-443-3562 THX. DENNIS
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