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01-08-2010, 06:34 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: na
Posts: 1,457
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Mel - are you kidding me? A DAR can require something that is not required through regulation simply because He/she thinks it is safer? I think I'd have to challenge any DAR directly on that count. Don't they have to inspect to some standard not opinion, especially in this case in which the FAR's are specific enough?
Ken
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01-08-2010, 06:37 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: na
Posts: 1,457
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in the name of safety is an awfully big umbrella...
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01-08-2010, 06:42 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,628
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They don't even have real whiskey in them!
I stuck a whiskey compass on my glare shield with double sided tape and removed it as soon as the DAR was out of sight. The GRT magnetometer works just fine and the GPS course indicator is close enough to use in the unlikely event of magnetometer failure, and it is certainly more accurate/useable than a whiskey compass.
__________________
Ron Schreck
IAC National Judge
RV-8, "Miss Izzy", 2250 Hours - Sold
VAF 2021 Donor
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01-08-2010, 07:01 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,769
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Not Kidding!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8R999
Mel - are you kidding me? A DAR can require something that is not required through regulation simply because He/she thinks it is safer? I think I'd have to challenge any DAR directly on that count. Don't they have to inspect to some standard not opinion, especially in this case in which the FAR's are specific enough?
Ken
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A DAR or FAA ASI can require anything he wants. Of course if he get very far out of line, he will stop receiving applications. Believe me, word gets around fast.
One example; Typically when I do a pressurized aircraft, the cabin pressurization tests have not been done. In this case I will issue Phase I only and require another inspection after the interior has been done and the pressure vessel has been properly tested. The reason for this is that an upholstery screw can totally destroy the integrity of the pressure vessel.
Another example: I require flexible FWF fuel lines to be fire-sleeved. The regulations for experimental aircraft do not require this, but I consider it a "safety of flight" issue.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Last edited by Mel : 01-08-2010 at 07:05 PM.
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01-08-2010, 07:02 PM
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been here awhile
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronschreck
I stuck a whiskey compass on my glare shield with double sided tape and removed it as soon as the DAR was out of sight. The GRT magnetometer works just fine and the GPS course indicator is close enough to use in the unlikely event of magnetometer failure, and it is certainly more accurate/useable than a whiskey compass.
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My RV-6 had an automotive compass suction-cupped to the windscreen (just) for it's inspection (1999).........
The RMI uEncoder magnetometer was the real magnetic indicator (probably looked at it no more than a couple of times before it was removed a few years later).
Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 01-08-2010 at 07:04 PM.
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01-08-2010, 07:07 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,769
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YEP!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan
My RV-6 had an automotive compass suction-cupped to the windscreen (just) for it's inspection (1999)......... 
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I've been there. As a matter of fact, my Moni Motorglider kit came with a $1.99 Wal-Mart compass, suction cup and all.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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01-08-2010, 07:26 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronschreck
I stuck a whiskey compass on my glare shield with double sided tape and removed it as soon as the DAR was out of sight. The GRT magnetometer works just fine and the GPS course indicator is close enough to use in the unlikely event of magnetometer failure, and it is certainly more accurate/useable than a whiskey compass.
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Velcro for me Ron. I have since passed the compass on to Doug Reeves for use in his RV-3.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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01-08-2010, 07:35 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteinAir
PS, Bill...which airliners do not have compasses in them? Personal curiosity! I figured the 787 and the new Sparky's (Airbus) are some of the most advanced out there....and they have a whisky compass in 'em.
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Don't know about any airliners on that, but Gulfstreams from G4 and up have DMDI's and no whiskey compass.
Don
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01-08-2010, 07:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: na
Posts: 1,457
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Mel - do you, or would you, provide your personal requirements ahead of the inspection if the builder asked you in an attempt to avoid a denial of the airworthiness certificate? Do you think most DARs would be willing to do so?
I guess I wouldn't have a problem with a non-req fire-sleeve requirement as long as I knew it was expected and had time to install them prior to the inspection (although I planned on doing this anyway - this weekend in fact). This seems like a reasonable working relationship between builder and DAR. However, if the DAR shows up and says, "surprise, you should have installed a ballistic parachute cause I personally feel this is a safety of flight requirement" I might rather abruptly show him the way out of my hangar 
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01-08-2010, 08:09 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8R999
Mel - do you, or would you, provide your personal requirements ahead of the inspection if the builder asked you in an attempt to avoid a denial of the airworthiness certificate? Do you think most DARs would be willing to do so?
I guess I wouldn't have a problem with a non-req fire-sleeve requirement as long as I knew it was expected and had time to install them prior to the inspection (although I planned on doing this anyway - this weekend in fact). This seems like a reasonable working relationship between builder and DAR. However, if the DAR shows up and says, "surprise, you should have installed a ballistic parachute cause I personally feel this is a safety of flight requirement" I might rather abruptly show him the way out of my hangar 
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Yes. I have no problem making my requirements known prior to inspection. There are very few things that I "add", like the firesleeve. And if the DAR is uncooperative, I sincerely believe that he will not receive many calls.
I've been doing this for over 10 years and only had one person who didn't want to install firesleeve. After discussing the matter, I finally convinced him that it really should be there.
BTW, firesleeve IS required on all part 23 aircraft.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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