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01-08-2010, 07:46 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,904
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Thanks!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilottonny
I have been hearing this "zip-ties schafing through the engine mount" for years now. Please someone, put up some real pictures, than we can discuss about a real thing. I am not buying it till I have seen it!
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Thanks Tonny for stating this. I was getting ready to ask the same question. So much stuff on the Internet becomes fact without quantifying data. I'm sure it is a possibility but where is the evidence. Why aren't engines falling off planes in mass? Why aren't there daily posts of, "zip ties cause complete electrical failure in my plane?" Simple answer is that it isn't occurring.
Some have said Boeing doesn't use them, others have said they do. Some 737's may predate zip ties. Others have said companies use them because they are cheap and fast and they need to get the product out the door. Not really accurate.
Bottom line, they are safe. Use the right ones FWF and do wire and fuel line protection as you would do with any securing system. Do what makes you feel best, be it, lacing cord or zip ties.
__________________
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
www.JDair.com
RV-7 N717EE-Flying (Sold)
RV-7 N717AZ Flying, in paint
EMS Bell 407,
Eurocopter 350 A-Star Driver
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01-08-2010, 07:55 AM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Well said Darwin! I know that it is possible for zip ties or anything to wear a whole in an engine mount under the right conditions - I've seen a rubber hose chafing against a mount that did this over a long time on a certified airplane - but you can easily inspect for this.
I personally don't use lacing cord FWF cause it can get oily up there, and then the waxed string gets messy, and ughh! I do use a lot of fire retardant "snake skin" to make the engine compartment look pretty though.
Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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01-08-2010, 10:11 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilottonny
I have been hearing this "zip-ties schafing through the engine mount" for years now. Please someone, put up some real pictures, than we can discuss about a real thing. I am not buying it till I have seen it!
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You don't have to buy it - I'm not selling anything. 
I don't make a habit of taking pictures of damaged parts on a customer's aircraft. You never know when someone in management is going to get upset about that, and I don't have my cellphone on my person when I'm working - it stays in the "personal" drawer of my toolbox. Maybe someone else can provide some photographic evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8R999
Jarhead - then what would you use zipties for? I agree with the last poster - I've had zipties all over the engine mount of my last plane for nearly 20 years and never saw a scratch (other than on my arms). I agree using high temps, high quality is the way to go.
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- Making wiring bundles.
- Making wire spacers for ignition harnesses.
- Securing the "snake skin" that Paul referenced. I prefer Expando FR Plus.
For FWF apps, that's about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7Guy
Thanks Tonny for stating this. I was getting ready to ask the same question. So much stuff on the Internet becomes fact without quantifying data. I'm sure it is a possibility but where is the evidence. Why aren't engines falling off planes in mass? Why aren't there daily posts of, "zip ties cause complete electrical failure in my plane?" Simple answer is that it isn't occurring.
Some have said Boeing doesn't use them, others have said they do. Some 737's may predate zip ties. Others have said companies use them because they are cheap and fast and they need to get the product out the door. Not really accurate.
Bottom line, they are safe. Use the right ones FWF and do wire and fuel line protection as you would do with any securing system. Do what makes you feel best, be it, lacing cord or zip ties.
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Folks, the original poster asked for thoughts on the use of zipties in the engine compartment. I never said "Don't use them at all!", I said IN MY EXPERIENCE as an A&P mechanic, the use of zipties directly against engine mounts and hard lines is a bad idea, because over time they can damage the mount/line. I even provided an FAA reference. I've seen the damage numerous times, I've been the person who found the damage several times, and I've been the person who replaced the damaged parts several times.
Bottom line (well, lines):
If you're an RV builder, and you want to use zipties on your engine mount, go ahead. You're the manufacturer, and it's your airplane and your money. But don't be surprised if your DAR or FSDO rep tells you to get the zipties off the engine mount when they inspect the airplane.
If you're an RV buyer, don't be surprised if your A&P tells you to get the zipties off the engine mount when he/she does the conditional inspection.
That's this A&P's opinion; it's worth every dime you paid for it.
__________________
Ken
Helicopter mechanic (A&P)
USAFR KC-10 Boom Operator, on final approach to retirement
My RV-9/8/7 dream may be on life support, but it ain't dead yet!
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01-18-2010, 07:47 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Roma, Italy
Posts: 510
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Zip ties along engine mount tubes are OK?
I saw installations of a man who built 6+ RV's and noticed that ignition, CHT and EGT probe wires are collected together and tied along the engine mount tubes with white zip ties (until passing through the firewall).
Apart from the problem that maybe white zip ties are not the heat resistent ones, I recall to have somewhere read (Bingelis) that this is not a safe procedure, since plastic ties over time will scuff powder coating, thus determining rust corrosion.
Is this true? How should I secure mines? Zip ties or adel clamps? Adel clamps securing method will be less tidy than using zip ties...
Thanks.
__________________
RV4 IO-320, Catto 3-blade, Christen, I-BILT
Flight time: 1 hour
Status: test flights
www.rv4.it
ROME, Italy
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RV9A O-320 D1A, Hartzell C/S prop, slider, I-PRCA
Flight time: 350 hours
Status: SOLD
http://nuke.rv9.it
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01-18-2010, 07:54 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,116
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Inspectors in Canada don't want to see anything zip tied directly to an engine mount... they want you to link a couple of zip ties together in this case. Personally, I didn't like the idea of zip ties on my engine mount tubes, so I used Adel clamps all over the place. A pain to install, but a nice way to do it IMO. In a couple of places where i used zip ties (e.g. for my blast tubes), I cut strips of the rubber baffle material and wrapped this around the engine mount tubes under the zip ties.
__________________
Phil
RV9A (SB)
Flying since July 2010!
Ottawa, Canada
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01-18-2010, 08:04 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,186
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Camillo, here's an entire thread with thoughts about using zip ties in the engine compartment:
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...&highlight=zip
I had a bunch of the self-adhesive UHMW material, so I cut lengths of that to put on the engine mount to protect it from zip tie chafing. It's clear and tough enough to resist any ill effects from the zip ties.
__________________
Don McNamara
Peoria, AZ
Builder: RV-8 "Smokey"
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01-18-2010, 08:31 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 654
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I used pieces of radiator hose that I slit longitudinally and wrapped around the tubes.
__________________
Tony
RV8A
N97AP
Warner Robins, GA
Phase I complete
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01-18-2010, 08:35 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waco, Texas
Posts: 1,658
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Almost as bad as primer wars......
Many will say it doesn't matter. Many will say it does. YMMV.
Mine will be 100% adel clamps though...
My logic is pretty simple. There's absolutely no chance of something going wrong if you don't try to cut corners. Use the right stuff from the beginning.
Phil
In the spirit of the thread.....

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01-18-2010, 11:32 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 118
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Another technique to prevent chafing or abrasion on the powdercoat is to first wrap the tube with Uniwrap silicone tape and then tie wrap wires as you need them. This absorbs the vibration. (Aircraft Spruce PN 09-30450)
Doug.
__________________
Doug Nebert - RV-10, #40546 (SB), started 2/2006, low compression O540 with older CS prop, 375+ hours on Hobbs. Flying since August 2010. Based KONP, Newport, OR
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01-18-2010, 12:19 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 645
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"Old wives tales"
To me this is still “old wives tales”. I asked for “proof” (pictures) in a few threads about this same topic, in the last few years, so far. Guess what? Never seen a picture of any alleged damage to the engine mount yet!
But……. If you have any proof, please show it here and I will eat a broom (typical Dutch saying)
Regards, Tonny
__________________
"Pilottonny"
Tonny Tromp
Lanaken, Belgium (EU)
RV9A, Registration: PH-VAN
ECI-Titan IOX-320 with dual EI, turning a Whirlwind 200RV CS prop.
Sold
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