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  #11  
Old 12-20-2009, 07:54 PM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TCONROY View Post
I have to say that the fact that the AHRS is built into the Pitot bothers me. Pitot's are exposed to the elements and are subject to damage from outside sources.
Where the heck did you get this idea from???
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2009, 07:57 PM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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It hurts to even read this thread. There is so much POO in here that it makes your head hurt. One could spend an hour correcting all the incorrectness listed here already.

If someone reads this thread in the future, do yourself a favor and do your own research into what is available right then and not what was available last week or what is promised for the future. Look at the track record for the manufacturers, look at how long they have been around, where they came from and where they are going and look at the installed base of satisfied customers. That will tell you a ton.

Do not take a few individuals opinions and let them slew you to their brand that they bought into just because they are trying to justify their purchase.

Fact is that any of the GRT, AFS, DYNON, MGL, and TT systems could be integrated into a good solid IFR panel that can handle IMC.
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Last edited by Brantel : 12-21-2009 at 07:01 AM. Reason: language rules
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2009, 08:03 PM
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L.Adamson L.Adamson is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
This leads to, When is enough, enough? When does the ?feature? go in the column of gadget? Is synthetic a gadget?
No! As far as I'm concerned, synthetic vision is going to be one of the best "pilot/passenger savers" to come along............in a long time. I've read the whys and wherefores of every U.S. and numerous foreign country flight into terrain accident for many years. Going back to the early fifties actually. Became highly interested when a DC-8 cargo jet crashed into a mountain very close to home in IMC.

My son who is in the US Air Force just attended a class in which the topic was loss of situational awareness. Everything from flying into rising terrain, to allowing the aircraft to pitch up & stall in IMC conditions. I have personally lost three pilot friends/ acquaintances along with their friends and spouses due to IMC or darkness, during flight which was suppose to be VFR. Fog/sudden whiteouts, and the black of dark is what got them. In fact, around the state of Utah, where I live, we were experiencing an average of three flight into terrain accidents a year!

While the new generations of GPS with terrain/obstacle databases go a long way as an aid for pointing out problems ahead, the synthetic vision is right in your face.... so to speak. You see a mountain, you pull up. And with probably no more control forces than you would looking out the wind screen, since it's a 3D representation. This is going to be just great for actual IFR/IMC operations!

L.Adamson --- RV6A
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2009, 08:13 PM
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N395V N395V is offline
 
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Quote:
Fact is that any of the GRT, AFS, DYNON, MGL, and TT systems could be integrated into a good solid IFR panel that can handle IMC.__________________
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Amen..............................
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2009, 08:39 PM
Danny7 Danny7 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel View Post
Where the heck did you get this idea from???
i reckon it was a straightforward way of saying the dynon ADAHRS gets it's primary info through airspeed,(through the pitot system)

here's the quotes directly from the dynon webpage:

Quote:
Outside Reference for Attitude: An ADAHRS requires an outside reference in order to quickly find and maintain its reference horizon. Dynon ADAHRSs use air speed derived from the pitot and static ports as their primary outside reference. Airspeed is the best reference to enable a fast attitude capture; Dynon units can typically find the horizon in under 10 seconds, even in flight. Units that do not use air speed can often take several minutes to find the horizon, and often require straight and level flight or to be stationary on the ground. In order to have a backup in the unlikely event of loss of pitot or static data, all Dynon ADAHRS revert to GPS ground track if a GPS is connected.


Connections: Each ADAHRS contains:
3 - Pneumatic ports for Pitot, Static, and Angle of Attack


sometimes it is easier to try and get the idea behind the words typed than to fight out what exactly the words meant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel View Post
It hurts to even read this thread. There is so much *kitty litter in here that it makes your head hurt. One could spend an hour correcting all the incorrectness listed here already.
if there is so much "incorrectness" in here maybe it would be good for you to point it out specifically, politely and with references. You've got Paul posting in this thread, is his posting full of "incorrectness"? the original poster has posted several times, he was asking for help and clarification. If he posted something wrong i'm sure he'd appreciate being shown the proper facts. I posted something short and sweet, sure hope it was "correct". If it isn't, please point it out. Tconroy had a post, backed up most of it with the EXPERIENCE of 30 hours of IFR on his system. The pitot thing is easily misunderstood, i think. I don't think he was saying it was actually IN the pitot tube, but like i quoted from dynons web page, it bases most of its info on the pitot system. ( with gps backup if hooked up). there are several other posters, i don't get which one is so far off to fill this thread up with "incorrectness".

'course, i don't have any IFR time, only a couple hours of simulated, and i don't look at every spec of the available EFIS' out there. If this is a foolish post that's fine. I'll get over it in a couple days I don't see how random claims of "incorrectness" are beneficial though.
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  #16  
Old 12-20-2009, 08:43 PM
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Chilll out or this thread gets locked.
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2009, 08:43 PM
jeff beckley jeff beckley is offline
 
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If you plan to add the SL30 then you will not find a better IFR platform than TruTrak. TruTrak has been doing it for a long time and some of the other EFIS guys are using Trutrack's stuff. I would not consider Dynon right now as it is only just a fancy moving map. Will not help you get to where you want to go and has no autopilot software working. It will be a long time before it is mature enough to be considered as a IFR device if ever. Besides I would never again buy into the idea of buying a piece of hardware until it is fully functional. Remember Blue Mountain? GRT, AFS, and MGL are contenders. MGL is hard at work and is a newcomer but I find it to be the most complicated device on the planet. Even the sales reps at Oshkosh could not show how it works. Not something you want to use in a pinch if you find yourself in IMC unexpected. Way over engineered.
Now down to GRT and AFS. Both have internal GPS with data base. Both play very well with separate autopilots and have the ability to communicate with the SL30 and 430 in the future.
My suggestion is decide on how complex of an EFIS you want and play with both of them at Sun and Fun. Just make sure that the units you are playing with are current shipping products. Vaporware will aggravate you to no end waiting for the updates to come out and worrying that it may never be complete before the manufacturer decides to release another better EFIS and leaves you out in the cold.

Keep one thing in mind. It is easy to be enamored by the glitzy wizbang features of the current crop of EFIS's. Lots of fun to play with at first but after time you will end up using a fraction of stuff especially if it is hard to operate. In IMC the simpler the better and it better work just as you expect.
It becomes your copilot and you have to trust it with your life. Pick the one you will trust.
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2009, 08:46 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Without getting to details, the best way for YOU to figure out which EFIS is best for YOU is to start making a list.

Back in the dark ages when I selected my Dynons I put together a simple list of what features each EFIS (and EMS) system had to offer. Don't rely on what you read on the internet forums, even this one. (Sorry Doug) Then when you have it narrowed down, call the companies and talk to someone there about what you view as a short coming.

You might just come away with a better feeling about a system you had originally nixed.

One friend who has probably over 10K hours in everything from his RV to fighters, to airlines, and more once told me he didn't understand why everyone is pumping out big bucks to buy synthetic vision. As he said, "It is not like you are going to use it to fly up a mountain valley in the clouds and when you are in the system who cares what's below you?"
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2009, 08:49 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff beckley View Post
... I would not consider Dynon right now as it is only just a fancy moving map. Will not help you get to where you want to go and has no autopilot software working. It will be a long time before it is mature enough to be considered as a IFR device if ever...
As a Dynon Beta Tester, I would submit you simply don't know what you are talking about.

The Dynon AP has some safety features that just blow away the competition. Having the AP driven by the EFIS allows for all types of intelligence that you don't get with other AP's. That's all I'll say about this subject right now. If Dynon wants to elaborate, great, but I will add, the Dynon AP can be a life saver and perform in ways others, including TT can't.
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Last edited by N941WR : 12-20-2009 at 08:52 PM.
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2009, 08:58 PM
breister breister is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken28117 View Post
I will probably use stein....considering AFS & GRT (not Dynon because every time I call them I have to get a call back) and service is everything.
That is odd, I've never had difficulty reaching a person during business hours. They also generally answer posts on their forum within a few hours, even on Sundays.
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