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  #1  
Old 12-09-2007, 04:53 AM
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cleve_thompson cleve_thompson is offline
 
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Location: Waycross GA
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Default Operating Limitations in Phase II for Experimental aircraft

Are the following limitations for Phase II flight in all Operating Limitations for Experimental Amateur-Built Aircraft, the limitations we have to live by if we fly experimental amateur-built aircraft?

1. ?Except for landings and take-offs, this aircraft may not be operated over densely populated areas or in congested airways.?

2. ?This aircraft is prohibited from operation in congested airways or over densely populated areas unless directed by air traffic control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the ground.?

------------These restrictions worry me.--------
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2007, 05:51 AM
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plehrke plehrke is offline
 
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Location: Defiance, MO
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Default Yes

None of them are actual restrictions to flying in Phase II, though. My home airport is under a Class B airspace and I transition all the time over populated area. It is actually under the 1500 ft ring so I only have 1000ft AGL during the transition. This is perfectly legal with those restriction because of the "Except for Take-off and Landing" phrase. When I am transitioning over densely populated areas it is for take-off and landing purposes. When in a cross country and I over fly densely populated area I am at "sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure". If I am in an congested airway I am usually directed there by ATC. So, they are really none restrictions. I think my interprtations are those generally accepted by everyone (and most of the FAA).
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Last edited by plehrke : 12-09-2007 at 06:18 AM. Reason: added altitudes
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  #3  
Old 12-09-2007, 06:23 AM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Default

Those restrictions are obsolete and went away about 7 or 8 years ago. My aircraft's operating limitations were issued in 2001 and did not include those restrictions.

Older homebuilts will have those restrictions, but you can petition the FAA to get the restrictions updated to the modern version without the restrictions.
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  #4  
Old 12-09-2007, 07:38 AM
Mitch757 Mitch757 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, MA
Posts: 355
Default OP Limit Restrictions

Hi Cleve,

I just had an experimental certified last week and your quote was exactly what was printed on my operating limitations.

Mitch Garner
RV-4 flying
PL-4 flying
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2007, 07:55 AM
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Location: Iowa
Posts: 255
Default Read this...

Cleve,
I would highly recommend this thread on the topic....

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=17261
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Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2007, 09:16 AM
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Dave Cole Dave Cole is offline
 
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Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 306
Default Part 91 Genreal Operating and Flight Rules

91.119 Minimum Safe Altitudes: General

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

This FAR aplies to all aircraft operations, including Experimental Category aircraft. Including this restriction in Experimental Operating Limitations is redundant.
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Started SB April 2004
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2009, 02:50 PM
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N8RV N8RV is offline
 
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Location: Elkhart, Indiana
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Default Phase II?

OK, I gotta know ... what IS "Phase II"?

I've searched here on DT for a description, and I've even searched the FARs in a vain attempt to find a definition. I know what Phase I is, but what's Phase II?

Is there a Phase III?

(if this is a stupid question, that's OK ... I ask a TON of 'em!)
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Don McNamara
Peoria, AZ

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  #8  
Old 11-16-2009, 04:15 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Default

Congratulations Don, you are now in Phase II, from which there is no escape.....

There IS no Phase III...
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Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
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  #9  
Old 11-16-2009, 04:17 PM
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Default

Phase I is for flight testing.
Phase II is for all operations after phase I is completed and properly documented in the aircraft maintenance records.
There is no Phase III.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2009, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
Congratulations Don, you are now in Phase II, from which there is no escape.....
There IS no Phase III...
The only way to escape Phase II is by going back into Phase I.
Well there is another way, but we don't want to talk about that!
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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