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  #1  
Old 11-03-2009, 08:56 PM
jeff beckley jeff beckley is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 192
Default Hard IFR Skyview or TT Efis

Not looking for a poll but would like to know if the SkyView would perform better in IFR operations. I am happy with the success that Dynon is generating with the soon to be released Skyview. I have a buddy that is on the fence as to which EFIS system to chose. I looks like the leaders of efis systems are relying on graphics and resolution rater than meat and potatos performance to sway new sales. To me inter-connectivity and performance would be top priority in IFR environment over a glitzy video display. When I talk about performance I do not mean bullet proof design but rather how well does the efis enhance safety. How well does it provide important information. How well does the autopilot work.
I have flown behind an EFIS that had synthetic vision and found it to be a little difficult to concentrate when performing a hard ILS approach.
I have been flying behind the TT EFIS IV for a while now. I chose it because it did not have synthetic display. It has a mature and flawless autopilot system and integrates with 430W for LPV approaches and does a nice job with the SL30.
I just do not understand the hype over a video game. VFR I think the SkyView would be pretty cool but would it be trusted for IFR with their autopilot?
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  #2  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:28 PM
Frank Smidler Frank Smidler is offline
 
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Location: Stoughton, WI
Posts: 473
Default I like the way you think...

.... and I believe that is the way TruTrak thinks as well. Too much gee wizardry may be more of a distraction, thus a detriment to safety, than the clean, get the job done TT system. I have been looking to upgrade my basic panel next year and have been on the fence between TT and Dynon's D100. I have been looking for someone who is using the TT EFIS to get their impressions. I would like to hear more of your experience.
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:15 PM
jeff beckley jeff beckley is offline
 
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Posts: 192
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The EFIS has exceeded my expectations. The screen layout is very very good. I had tapes on my last EFIS that showed speed/alt/trends ect... I found that I always referred to my steam gauges for the basics. I now hardly look at them. The semi round gauges on the SG are great. I opted for the standard brightness screen and found it to be very bright. Direct sunlight is even better.
The EFIS has a mission... To provide the pilot with direct information needed to fly the plane and provide a platform for their autopilot. Integration with my 430w is excellent. LPV/GPS approaches are performed flawlessly. Three button presses to perform a fully coupled approach to minimums and fly the missed procedure and enter the hold. Operation of the menus is straight forward with no sub menus to cycle through to get something done. The EFIS uses soft keys to select the desired action like setting alt, setting vert speed, GPSS, GPSSV. TT software is intelligent and anticipates what you might need to select and offers the item above the keys before you might need it so no sub menus are required. It provides a female voice annunciation for every stage of an approach. It has two knobs that provide direct control of vert speed, course and altitude. Another neat feature is what I call the "O S$it Button"
A separate button that when pressed will level the wings and lock the heading.
The Autopilot is rock steady and really smooth. Holds spot on even in turbulence. I installed it in my RV7 and have not touched a single factory setting.
The only thing it needs to be the perfect system is the ability to display VOR/ILS signals from my 430w. That will be resolved in a couple of weeks when TT ships the ARNIC converter.
One last thing is it does not use a magnetometer. It only displays course.
At first I was skeptical until after the first flight and I saw heading mode is not needed. What difference does it make what way the plane is pointing if you are going from point A to B. A golf ball does not fly through the air pointing straight. Wind correction is calculated internally.
I know it does not have a moving map or synthetic display but I get that from my 430 and 396. I used to have to enter a flight plan in three different GPS's. Now I only have to enter one into my 430 and it cross fills my 396 and provides the EFIS with the flight data.
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  #4  
Old 11-04-2009, 06:13 AM
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Bubblehead Bubblehead is offline
 
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Location: Keller, TX
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Jeff,

The lack of AHRS or Magnetometer has concerned me. My current DG bugs me. I fly a lot of cross country and get tired of resetting the DG to fly the heading. I agree that when on autopilot the DG does not matter, but when hand flying it does.

Also, are you using the EMS system/display too? If so, what has been your experience with it and likes and dislikes?

Like Frank, I have been intrigued by the TT EFIS but have not heard or read many first hand experiences so your posts are very helpful.

John
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2009, 06:33 AM
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L.Adamson L.Adamson is offline
 
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Location: KSLC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Smidler View Post
.... and I believe that is the way TruTrak thinks as well. Too much gee wizardry may be more of a distraction, thus a detriment to safety, than the clean, get the job done TT system. I have been looking to upgrade my basic panel next year and have been on the fence between TT and Dynon's D100. I have been looking for someone who is using the TT EFIS to get their impressions. I would like to hear more of your experience.
Ah..............the flat lands of Indiana and Iowa. Looks like we still need some additional gee wizardry out here in the rugged mountain west. Pilots are still whacking the hills in this area. IFR, VFR, inadvertent IMC or loss of situational awareness. Do I look forward to more "synthetic vision"?............yes!

L.Adamson --- RV6A
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  #6  
Old 11-04-2009, 06:59 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Location: Dayton, NV
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff beckley View Post
One last thing is it does not use a magnetometer. It only displays course.
At first I was skeptical until after the first flight and I saw heading mode is not needed. What difference does it make what way the plane is pointing if you are going from point A to B.

While I agree with you in principle that course is more important than heading when going from A to B, when you get into a busy terminal environment IFR, you are going to be expected to fly assigned headings, not courses. The controller is giving everyone headings, and since they are all operating in the same wind pattern, that works out fine. If someone out there is flying a course instead, it can put him where ATC doesn't expect. So for IFR where radar vectors are expected, you really should have magnetic heading available.

Now, if they every perfect "Free Flight", it will be a different matter....

Paul
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  #7  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:36 AM
jeff beckley jeff beckley is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
While I agree with you in principle that course is more important than heading when going from A to B, when you get into a busy terminal environment IFR, you are going to be expected to fly assigned headings, not courses. The controller is giving everyone headings, and since they are all operating in the same wind pattern, that works out fine. If someone out there is flying a course instead, it can put him where ATC doesn't expect. So for IFR where radar vectors are expected, you really should have magnetic heading available.

Now, if they every perfect "Free Flight", it will be a different matter....

Paul
That is what I thought at first. My flight instructor and good friend is a traffic controller here in Des Moines. For eons heading mode was the norm until the digital age. He told me that he can tell right away when the pilot is flying heading or course mode and can make the correction in his assigned course so it really does not matter when going into a controlled zone. When you have an autopilot being controlled by a GPS it is flying course. This way when transitioning to a vectored approach you do not have to redo the math in your head. Course mode is sooo much simpler as the efis calculates the wind correction for you. Cross country flight planning is simpler. Flying the hold at a VOR in strong cross winds are a breeze. "no pun"
All the current EFIS manufacturers except TT have the ability to fly both but I liken it to having a DVD player and a VHS in the same multi function TV. Some want both. To me flying course mode removes a lot of mental work load.
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:51 AM
jeff beckley jeff beckley is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Adamson View Post
Ah..............the flat lands of Indiana and Iowa. Looks like we still need some additional gee wizardry out here in the rugged mountain west. Pilots are still whacking the hills in this area. IFR, VFR, inadvertent IMC or loss of situational awareness. Do I look forward to more "synthetic vision"?............yes!

L.Adamson --- RV6A
I agree completely but my question is does the SkyView provide a competent IFR platform. To me synthetic vision does not provide me with any more terrain or obstacle warnings than my 430 or 396 does. If it going into a plane with just a SL30 or less than it would be great. I am only trying to make these comparisons to differentiate designs between fluff and practicality.
I had the Blue Mountain system and loved it for the synthetic vision but found i used it less and less. A clean uncluttered screen with accurate flight data is essential while performing a IFR approach. The TruTrak efis only provides you with the information needed for current phase of your flight.
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:55 AM
jeff beckley jeff beckley is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblehead View Post
Jeff,

The lack of AHRS or Magnetometer has concerned me. My current DG bugs me. I fly a lot of cross country and get tired of resetting the DG to fly the heading. I agree that when on autopilot the DG does not matter, but when hand flying it does.

Also, are you using the EMS system/display too? If so, what has been your experience with it and likes and dislikes?

Like Frank, I have been intrigued by the TT EFIS but have not heard or read many first hand experiences so your posts are very helpful.

John
John I do not have the EMS as it would require a substantial rework of my panel. If I were to start from scratch it would be in there. For my review go over to the Trutrak web site and in the forums I have posted some comments. http://trutrakap.com/forum/index.php
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:46 AM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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Default

I am sure you can turn the SV on or off??? If you don't like it, don't use it.

Also, there are many more new features to the Skyview system other than the SV. It is just one of the reasons this will be an awesome system.

Out of the gate it will be worthless for IFR until they add the many features that are promised to be coming for that system.

If they make good on the promises, it will be a great solution for IFR when coupled with a great GPS/NAV source like the 430w/530w.

Also it is impossible to answer your question at this point because there are few of them flying in the world and most likely there is no body with experience in an IFR environment with a Skyview and the track record for reliability will have to be earned in the future.
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Last edited by Brantel : 11-04-2009 at 08:51 AM.
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