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10-18-2009, 04:07 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 192
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WAAS Approach downgraded
Installed new 430W but used old GA-56 antenna. Was told that it would work just is not certified. Have 5 feet RG-400 cable to the antenna. Antenna is mounted under the cowl on a plate mounted to the firewall on a RV7A.
Every LPV approach I have tried to do ends up with "Approach downgraded"
I still have the GA-35 if needed but is something else a problem?
Also the data base is expired. Will that keep me from a LPV approach?
__________________
Jeff Beckley
Des Moines Iowa
Van's RV-7A
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10-18-2009, 07:40 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Shorewood, WI (Milwaukee area)
Posts: 1,066
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WAAS downgrade
Don't know effect on LPV's, but install manual for 430W suggests 13 feet of RG-400 for appropriate impedence. I plan to use that length and it certainly gives you latitude for mounting location. Bill
__________________
Bill Dicus
Shorewood (Milwaukee) Wisconsin
RV-8 N9669D Flying 12/4/14!
Flying Pitts S-2A, Piper Lance
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10-18-2009, 09:39 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 192
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13 feet? Could I add connectors and additional cable to make that length?
Otherwise I need to fish out the cable I have installed already.
__________________
Jeff Beckley
Des Moines Iowa
Van's RV-7A
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10-18-2009, 10:06 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marion IA
Posts: 1,095
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reference for 13' cable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Dicus
...install manual for 430W suggests 13 feet of RG-400 for appropriate impedence. ...
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Hi Bill - cable length isn't ususally used to adjust impedance... but I did find a section of the manual that calls out for a total cable loss (between antenna and 430W) of 3-7dB. The 3dB minimum case might be close to your 13 feet of cable with a couple of connectors or adapters.
The minimum loss is amost certainly to improve inteference rejection (actually intermodulation) of the receiver.... probably not your problem but you never nkow.
I'd bet the problem is the antenna. The WAAS signal in space is the same center frequency as the regular old GPS L1, but it is a wider bandwidth. That is why the antennas are different - the WAAS antenna is specified over a wider frequency range.
I'd verify the type / quality of my antenna & coax connections. If that is all good then I'd swap for the correct antenna.
Good luck!
__________________
Dave Gribble VAF #232
Building RV-9A N149DG (slider, IO-320, IFR)
Restored and Flying Beech Super III N3698Q
Marion IA
Struggling with fiberglass
There is no sport equal to that which aviators enjoy while being carried through the air on great white wings." Wilbur Wright, 1905
Last edited by IowaRV9Dreamer : 10-18-2009 at 10:36 PM.
Reason: added loss info
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10-19-2009, 08:37 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,231
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While a different radio, the GNS 480 required a new antenna to remain WAAS/GPV compliant (which Garmin provided) along with a software upgrade. Don't know if there is a similar deal for the 430W upgrade.
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10-19-2009, 02:18 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Shorewood, WI (Milwaukee area)
Posts: 1,066
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GPS
Jeff: I don't know how many you'd need, but would think additional connectors would move in the right direction. My ST Upgrade Installation Manual 400W series Page 9 Revision B paragraph 2.5.4 says: (the manuals) "require that the coaxial cable have a loss of 3 dB to 7 dB. If RG400 is used, 3 dB equates to a length of approximately 13 feet of RG400 cable with a connector on each end." It also notes that a BNC to TNC adaptor (such as P/N1-1478013-0 from AMP (Tyco)) may be used to connect a cable with a BNC connector to an antenna with a TNC connector. This will add 0.5 dB to the overall GPS antenna cable loss. The minimum cable would seem to be 13 feet of RG400 with a connector on each end. I guess you could just splice in additional cable by the radio or the antenna; then you wouldn't have to restring the RG400 already in place. Good luck - let me know how it works out for you. Bill
__________________
Bill Dicus
Shorewood (Milwaukee) Wisconsin
RV-8 N9669D Flying 12/4/14!
Flying Pitts S-2A, Piper Lance
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10-19-2009, 02:20 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Shorewood, WI (Milwaukee area)
Posts: 1,066
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Thanks Dave: See post to Jeff. Bill
__________________
Bill Dicus
Shorewood (Milwaukee) Wisconsin
RV-8 N9669D Flying 12/4/14!
Flying Pitts S-2A, Piper Lance
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10-19-2009, 02:55 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 306
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You answered your own question
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff beckley
Installed new 430W but used old GA-56 antenna. Was told that it would work just is not certified. Have 5 feet RG-400 cable to the antenna. Antenna is mounted under the cowl on a plate mounted to the firewall on a RV7A.
Every LPV approach I have tried to do ends up with "Approach downgraded"
I still have the GA-35 if needed but is something else a problem?
Also the data base is expired. Will that keep me from a LPV approach?
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I think you answered your own question. I would install the correct antenna and update the database before I would monkey around with anything else.
Also, it is my understanding that a GPS TSO'd for IFR use is required for an IFR flight plan. Compliance with the TSO includes installation IAW the manufacturer's installation manual, which would include the specified GPS antenna. If IFR is you intended mission, I think you need to install a new antenna.
__________________
Dave Cole RV-7 N97DC reserved
dave.cole@cox.net
Started SB April 2004
Hope to fly in 2011
Last edited by Dave Cole : 10-19-2009 at 02:58 PM.
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10-20-2009, 08:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 192
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Did some xpermentin. I grabed an old GA-36 off the shelf and a 10 foot length of 400. Connected it to the 430 and placed the antenna next to me in the cockpit. Everything worked just fine. I think the placement of the antenna on the firewall inside the firewall is causing some problems. I restrung 14 feet of 400 and am waiting for the wass antenna to show up.
__________________
Jeff Beckley
Des Moines Iowa
Van's RV-7A
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10-20-2009, 10:03 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff beckley
Installed new 430W but used old GA-56 antenna. Was told that it would work just is not certified. Have 5 feet RG-400 cable to the antenna. Antenna is mounted under the cowl on a plate mounted to the firewall on a RV7A.
Every LPV approach I have tried to do ends up with "Approach downgraded"
I still have the GA-35 if needed but is something else a problem?
Also the data base is expired. Will that keep me from a LPV approach?
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As others have said...that's a No No!
Wrong antenna, wrong coax length, etc.. I'm surprised the GPS worked at all, because most times it won't with the old antenna. Your 430W should have come with the new antenna, along with the appropriate installation instructions.
Put in the right antenna and the right length of coax and I bet you'll be fine!
Cheers,
Stein
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