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  #71  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:21 PM
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sglynn sglynn is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes, WA
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Default I'll use a test pilot for the following reasons

I fly weekly in my Cherokee Dakota and I have about 700 hours total time. I will use a test pilot to fly my RV-7A for the first time, for the following reasons:

1) a test pilot will be able to detect out of trim condition quicker than I and will be able to resppond accordingly faster than me. This could save me and my airplane from damage

2) if something goes wrong, I think a test pilot will respond better than me. And I don't need to get hurt in the plane I just built and I don't need to damage the plane either.

3) I think it will be a non-event and therefore can't find any negative reasons for not having a test pilot. This is different thinking, then, "might as well do it myself" see numbers 1) and 2).
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RV-7A
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Anacortes, WA
www.mykitlog.com/sglynn

Last edited by sglynn : 10-09-2009 at 10:26 PM.
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  #72  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:46 PM
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dhall_polo dhall_polo is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 610
Question test pilot

I had a problem lurking in my airplane. The inverted flip flop tube was not tightened properly inside the tank. Installation error by me. No problem as long as the whole tube is below the fuel line. But with a partial tank, the fuel pump start sucking air on take-off, nose-up attitude.

Had I been flying the airplane, who knows? Almost 4 years building and a lot of rust in the pilot skills. The Test Pilot instinctively switched tanks in a half of a gurgle, and it was a non-event. Thank you, Kahuna! Maybe that saved my life not finding that on my own.

The first flight is about the plane, not the pilot.

I had my first flight later, and it was just as sweet. If there's another RV left in this builder, I'll do first flight. By then I'll have the hours and experience.
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N517DG - RV7 - Flying!
Ticked Van's Hobbes meter at #6110, 3/7/09
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  #73  
Old 10-10-2009, 07:05 PM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhall_polo View Post
I had a problem lurking in my airplane. The inverted flip flop tube was not tightened properly inside the tank. Installation error by me...
I don't want this to come off sounding harsh, but I suspect some will view it that way...

Prior to flight, did you perform a nose high, full power run in a the fuel condition (full, half, etc) expected for flight? This is an important preflight check; seems like it would have uncovered this problem, no?
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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  #74  
Old 10-11-2009, 04:07 PM
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dhall_polo dhall_polo is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
I don't want this to come off sounding harsh, but I suspect some will view it that way...

Prior to flight, did you perform a nose high, full power run in a the fuel condition (full, half, etc) expected for flight? This is an important preflight check; seems like it would have uncovered this problem, no?
All testing that is typically done before first flight was done. First flight was done with near full tanks, and this was uncovered on a later flight. My test pilot flew more than just the first flight, and this error happened as fuel burned down. Hopefully the point was not missed that in the first flight or three, there's obviously a much greater chance of some sort of failure that could lead to emergency procedures. For those who question over whether they're personally the best test pilot, just need to assess their preparedness for the worst.

Thanks.
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N517DG - RV7 - Flying!
Ticked Van's Hobbes meter at #6110, 3/7/09
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  #75  
Old 10-11-2009, 05:05 PM
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Location: Rochester, MN
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About 15 years ago there was a guy I worked with that had spent 10 years building his plane only to wreck and total it on his maiden voyage. Fortunately he escaped relatively unharmed. I don't recall what kind of plane it was.
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  #76  
Old 10-11-2009, 05:48 PM
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Kevin Horton Kevin Horton is offline
 
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
I don't want this to come off sounding harsh, but I suspect some will view it that way...

Prior to flight, did you perform a nose high, full power run in a the fuel condition (full, half, etc) expected for flight? This is an important preflight check; seems like it would have uncovered this problem, no?
Doing a full power, nose high engine run is a bit much in my opinion. There are a few ways that could go very, very badly.

But, up here in Canada, we are required to do a fuel flow test with minimum fuel and the pitch attitude higher than it would be in a max angle climb. The fuel line is disconnected at the carb or fuel injection servo, and the boost pump is turned on, with minimum fuel in the tanks. The fuel flow must be greater than is required at take-off power. This is a good test to do, in my opinion, as it can catch myriad problems.
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  #77  
Old 10-11-2009, 06:12 PM
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L.Adamson L.Adamson is offline
 
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Location: KSLC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhall_polo View Post
All testing that is typically done before first flight was done. First flight was done with near full tanks, and this was uncovered on a later flight. My test pilot flew more than just the first flight, and this error happened as fuel burned down. Hopefully the point was not missed that in the first flight or three, there's obviously a much greater chance of some sort of failure that could lead to emergency procedures. For those who question over whether they're personally the best test pilot, just need to assess their preparedness for the worst.
My engine had it's first and only "burp" after phase one. Within a split second I flipped the fuel pump on & switched tanks. That was quickly followed by a mixture change, that was most likely the problem to start with.

I would have done the same on the first flight, with no hesitation, as I was mentally prepared for it.

Since I read the majority of NTSB reports every week, as well as first flights on Van's website and here, I've concluded that the majority of first flight, as well as subsequent flights end successfully. Without doubt, failures still happen after these first few flights; and the pilot will have be just as prepared then. I just don't see a pattern of failures on the first to third flights as compared to airplanes with more hours, except for those where the obvious was missed. The obvious has wiped out many test pilots too.

I do see a pattern in this thread of "anxiety". It's normal for a builder, whether a Van's RV or other. I know some very experienced pilots who have jumped aboard their new high powered creation, and still get a case of the jitters for that first takeoff.

But here's the deal. If your overwhelmed with hesitation and anxiety for that first flight..................then don't do it. But I don't want this thread to evolve.... to speculate that it's somewhat foolish to perform your own first flight, since someone else is "always" going to have more hours. And that's where it's kind of going. Afterall, a Van's design has a much better chance of total success versus a number of one off the paper designs. And the facts are, thousands of builders (including myself) do their own first flights, and are still here to talk about it. I'm glad I did. I didn't want it any other way..

L.Adamson --- RV6A

Last edited by L.Adamson : 10-11-2009 at 06:14 PM.
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  #78  
Old 10-11-2009, 06:39 PM
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Noel Simmons Noel Simmons is offline
 
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Location: Lewistown
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Default Test pilot

I have done several test flights, close to 15 now, mostly RV's. Next week I am due to make another in an RV-7 I am just now finishing up.

There is a HUGE difference between building and flying. Totally two different hats, and mind frames.

IF there is any question AT ALL

Call me or someone else!
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  #79  
Old 10-11-2009, 07:09 PM
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jsharkey jsharkey is offline
 
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Default

And ironically Steve Lynn looks more like at test pilot than Noel Simmons
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  #80  
Old 10-11-2009, 08:46 PM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Horton View Post
Doing a full power, nose high engine run is a bit much in my opinion. There are a few ways that could go very, very badly...
...Yet this very test is promoted by many very experienced people, apparently for good reason. As for going very badly, how so? Anyway, I would much rather have a bad day on the ground than in the air, anytime.

There are many good reasons not to fly your own test flight, but being "afraid" of mechanical failure should not be among them (nervous, sure; afraid, no). If you think that something might fall off, the engine will quit, catch fire, or the controls are backwards, you should not let ANYONE fly the thing. To be blunt, you have not done your job as a builder. The fact is, aside from a FREAK failure, like throwing a rod, a "correctly" built, conventional RV will fly very nicely with almost absolute certainty. Almost any first flight failure that requires anything above average piloting skill can be traced to poor preflight preparation and could have been found through ground test and inspection. I would challenge anyone to find a first flight failure that was completely out of the control of the builder or pilot.

I've been in the aviation maintenance business for all my adult life, and I have had countless first flights after I have torn the aircraft right down to the bare bones; I've NEVER wondered if the aircraft was safe. If I did, I would not let the pilot take the jet. To make a long story a little longer, flight test is not a method for uncovering the mistakes of the builder/mechanic, it is to verify what you should already know - that the aircraft is airworthy.

Build it right, it WILL fly.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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