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  #1  
Old 10-07-2009, 10:45 AM
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Damia Damia is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Menorca, Balearic Islands (Mediterranean)
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Default 5 seater RV-10

Good morning,

I am a new pilot who has never built anything, though for a long time I have been thinking on building an airplane. I live in the island of Menorca, Spain. I was in Oshkosh last summer and I recently spoke with a couple of RV builders, and have nearly decided to start building an RV7. I like its travelling capability, but I have three children and I wouldn't really like to travel often if I have to leave them behind. So a crazy idea assaulted me: I could build an RV10 and put a bench and three seat belts in the back, so I could take there three children instead of two adults. If I finish the airplane in three years they will be 7, 8 and 10 by then, so I think they should still fit there by weight and size for some 6 or 7 years.

The main problem I would see to that is the tunnel. It would make it unconfortable for the one sitting in the middle, but I think we should be able to live with that.

In my view the rear bench should be higher than normal, so they get a good view out the window and some more leg space.

Do you think this is reasonable? Anyone sees a problem in putting 3 seatbelts instead of two?

I know this sounds quite hipotetical, but my decision on the model to build (and therefore a lot of effort and money) depends on the doability of this idea, so I would really apreciate your comments.

Thank you very much for your help.
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2009, 11:12 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Damia,
Welcome to VAF! I believe it's been done, but the name of the builder escapes me--hopefully either he or someone else will chime in. What you really need to ask yourself is how often are you going to fly with 5? If it's only once in a while, I'd try to find a Cessna 206, Piper Six, Lance, Saratoga, or a Bonanza A36 to rent for those occasions. Build or buy the airplane that meets the majority of your flying needs. Modifiying a -10 is doable but not a long term solution IMO. Kids grow fast and if they're not happy in back then you won't be happy.
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  #3  
Old 10-07-2009, 11:17 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damia View Post

In my view the rear bench should be higher than normal, so they get a good view out the window and some more leg space.

Do you think this is reasonable? Anyone sees a problem in putting 3 seatbelts instead of two?
It is a nice idea but I don't think it is reasonable. If they were currently 1, 2, and 4 years old you could probably make it work for four or five years after a three year construction time (that would make them 4, 5, and 7 when you were ready to fly).

At the ages they are now I don't think you could make it work very well even if you were ready to fly tomorrow. The tunnel would be the least of the problem. It is not very wide and someone sitting in the center could easily put one leg on each side.

The problem is the opverall space.
The width is 41 inches at the hips and 45 inches at the elbows.
Try sitting the three of them down on a bench with sides that limit the overall space to 45 inches (and even less at the hips). I don't think they will find it very comfortable right now. Three years from now it would be even worse.

I wish I had better news for you, but I don't think it is a practical choice considering their ages.
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  #4  
Old 10-07-2009, 12:17 PM
Rick S. Rick S. is offline
 
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Location: Las Vegas
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It will totally depend on the size of your semi finished children. If they are thin and have small behinds by the time you finish the kit you may be able to make it happen. I have the 60/40 seats in the rear from Classic Aero which is darn close to a split bench seat. The rear seating in the RV-10 is pretty spacious. You will have to incorporate an additonal hard point somehow for the center shoulder belts, the two standard ones are attached to the main longeron. W & B could creep in when you start to consider trip length and the amount of baggage 5 people would need. Not sure if insurance will factor in for you but it may if they look at your total time and the fact you want to tote along your entire family of 5 in a 4 place aircraft. I would not build the rear seat up, you really don't need too IMHO if you look at Tim Olson's daughters in the back on his travel stories they have plenty of room to sightsee. Last but not least you will need some alternative form of threating them when they misbehave "Don't make my pull this airplane over and come back there!!" won't work
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Last edited by Rick S. : 10-07-2009 at 12:20 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2009, 11:16 AM
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yooper yooper is offline
 
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Location: Boston. MA
Posts: 77
Wink 5 or 4 seats

You are the manufacturer, and you define the number of seats. I think we have already described ours to the insurance company as a 5 seater. We are going to provision for 3 (children) in the back for my partner's three. Luckily, they are a pretty scrawny family!
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2009, 11:20 AM
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yooper yooper is offline
 
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Default Local flights

I would also say if most of your flights are going to be short or medium around the islands, go for the RV-10 with 5 seats. If you're taking a week's worth of supplies and flying to Scotland, it might be less comfortable, but flying over to Mallorca for a day trip should be fine.

Or get a Murphy Moose, although its slower and the builder community is sparser.

TDT
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2009, 12:47 PM
Pilottonny Pilottonny is offline
 
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Location: Belgium
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Default Check your local "experimental" regulations!

Mind the regulations in Spain! Maybe this can be done in the USA, but I know for sure, that there is no 5 seater experimental allowed in The Netherlands, for example.

Regards, Tonny.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:46 PM
breister breister is offline
 
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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The old Piper Comanches put a "child seat" in the baggage area to be a 4+2. I don't know if there is enough baggage area in the RV-10 to consider such a thing, and would be cautious in any event about aft CG.

However, if you absolutely need 5 seats AND insist on a home built airplane there are certainly options. If you REALLY want to be experimental, you can modify the RV-10 plans a bit, perhaps having an aft-facing or side-facing 5th passenger.

The Ravin kit is modeled after the Comanche "C" model (I believe the final version before the flood in the plant, and the one they put the extra seat in) and has an ungodly high gross weight.

The Lionheart was designed from the ground up as a kit plane, but is no longer in production. Man, that was a pretty plane! Maybe one of the original ones is for sale?
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2009, 09:34 PM
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bhassel bhassel is offline
 
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Velocity also has a 5 passenger the XL...

Bob
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2009, 01:30 AM
chiricuca chiricuca is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 43
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Let me answer in spanish, sorry to the rest.
No s? si sabr?s que la normativa de construcci?n amateur en nuestro santo pa?s no permite que hagamos aviones con motores mayores de 180 CV, con lo cual, el RV-10 est? fuera de nuestras posibilidades legales. Esto ya te responde al resto de las 5 plazas que, posiblemente, aunque pudieras hacer el avi?n, la Direcci?n General de Seguridad en Vuelo casi te asegurar?a que no te dejar?a. Adem?s el seguro, en caso de incidente, se lavar?a las manos, etc, etc.
Piensa que las ocasiones en las que pudieras volar con todos tus hijos son tan pocas que no merece la pena montar todo este l?o.
Espero haberte ayudado.
Un saludo
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