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09-24-2009, 11:53 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
Posts: 216
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Life after Tip-over / RV-7 rebuild
Dear RVators,
Last august RV-7A PH-RVP fell victim to a tip-over accident in Hoganas, Sweden. Its builder decided not to fly anymore and did not reclaim the wreck. My fellow owners of the PH-VII and me made an offer to the insurance company and are no the new owners of the wreck, which we picked up in Sweden and brought it back to Holland last weekend. After thinking over some possible scenario's (stripping the wreck, selling the components, using the engine for a new RV-8 project) we decided to rebuild/restore the plane again. As far as we can see now the emp is 80% destroyed, the wing has one tip plus the last rib gone, the canopy (slider) is completely smashed but the fuselage has "only" damaged top skins AND the left upper longeron is damaged at the attachment point for the rollbar.
I think we will have loads of questions during the project, which I hope you want to help us with. Maybe people which have had this incident are willing to share their experiences with us?
For starters: we plan on selling the plane when it flies again. Is it wise, in this context, to convert it to a taildragger?
Please give us all your advise, tips etcetera!
All the best, kind regards,
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09-24-2009, 01:05 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 466
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hi rene,
i'll be following your progress... in the end, i'd like to see as many 7A's in european skies as possible ;-)
i for one would NEVER buy an accident airplane, even if it had been rebuilt.
maybe if i was part of the rebuild process/rebuilt it myself but even then...
so imho i would part it out and maybe reuse a few things, have the engine rebuilt, reuse some avionics / lighting etc...
but i'd get a fresh set of qb fuse and wings and build a new empennage.
i'd be never comfortable flying a structure where there could be hidden defects or at least some rigging issues.
then again, maybe it's because i'm of swiss thinking ;-)
my 20cts,
bernie
__________________
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Bernie Daenzer, Alex Lichtensteiger
www.flyvans.com
RV-7A
S/N 72072, Flying!
HB-YMT (Switzerland)
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09-24-2009, 01:40 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 317
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"i'd be never comfortable flying a structure where there could be hidden defects or at least some rigging issues.
then again, maybe it's because i'm of swiss thinking ;-)"
Isn't that what the condition inspection is for?
__________________
Brian Kilby
flying RV-6A, previously flying RV-9A
based at KCTJ, Carrollton, GA
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09-24-2009, 01:43 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
Posts: 216
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No worries, we'll be very careful
Hey, don't forget who will do the rebuild!
Every bent piece will be replaced and all suspect parts will be scrutinized and, when needed, replaced. For instance I would not dare using the engine mount again.
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09-24-2009, 05:09 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 187
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We all fly accident airplanes at times, must be 90% of C172s/Cherokees have been damaged at some point, nobody seems to see that as any issue(me included). Same with cars, the only ones that you can be certain of having no accident history are new ones, and most of us buy used! Just do it properly and don't scrap what can once again be a nice aeroplane...
That's my two cents worth anyway, thanks.
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09-24-2009, 06:38 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 3,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hohocc
We all fly accident airplanes at times, must be 90% of C172s/Cherokees have been damaged at some point, nobody seems to see that as any issue(me included). Same with cars, the only ones that you can be certain of having no accident history are new ones, and most of us buy used! Just do it properly and don't scrap what can once again be a nice aeroplane...
That's my two cents worth anyway, thanks.
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Now that is quite a statement................ 
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09-24-2009, 10:43 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Elmendorf,TX
Posts: 358
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Go for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene Bubberman
Dear RVators,
Last august RV-7A PH-RVP fell victim to a tip-over accident in Hoganas, Sweden. Its builder decided not to fly anymore and did not reclaim the wreck. My fellow owners of the PH-VII and me made an offer to the insurance company and are no the new owners of the wreck, which we picked up in Sweden and brought it back to Holland last weekend. After thinking over some possible scenario's (stripping the wreck, selling the components, using the engine for a new RV-8 project) we decided to rebuild/restore the plane again. As far as we can see now the emp is 80% destroyed, the wing has one tip plus the last rib gone, the canopy (slider) is completely smashed but the fuselage has "only" damaged top skins AND the left upper longeron is damaged at the attachment point for the rollbar.
I think we will have loads of questions during the project, which I hope you want to help us with. Maybe people which have had this incident are willing to share their experiences with us?
For starters: we plan on selling the plane when it flies again. Is it wise, in this context, to convert it to a taildragger?
Please give us all your advise, tips etcetera!
All the best, kind regards,
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I went through exactly this scenario. In December 2007, my 7a flipped. My fuselage sustained more damage than yours. My wings were undamaged except for the right fiberglass wingtip, tip rib and 10 inches of the outer leading edge skin. My rudder and vertical stab were both damaged.
The post crash pictures are http://new.baron.com/flip
The post rebuild pictures are http://new.baron.com/rvpics
The prop was toasted, crank bent, cowl was cracked, canopy smashed, etc.
The plane has been completely restored/rebuilt to as new condition. I did not repair the fuselage, I replaced it with a new quick build. I found an empennage kit for sale and replaced the vertical stab and rudder.
I converted to a tail dragger, which necessitated a new engine mount and cowling mods. A new wing tip was purchased and fitted the right wing was repaired by replacing the outer leading edge skin and one rib.
There was no spar damage, no popped rivets etc. The wings were perfectly true (except for the wrinkle on one side  )
I was able to transplant my entire instrument panel, forward ribs and most of the wiring to the new fuselage, saving hundreds of hours. Of course as soon as I was finished, I decided to upgrade the panel.
The plane looks and flies great. I have NO qualms about it. I built it (twice).
The beauty of sheet metal: Anything can be repaired or replaced as needed.
While I could have patched the old fuselage, it was quicker (and therefore cheaper) to find a fuselage that had not been started.
Fortunately, insurance picked up most of the tab for the rebuild. It's going to cost a lot more than you think, but still a lot less than a complete new airplane.
Feel free to email me or PM if you have specific questions about the process.
JP
__________________
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Hangared since 11/23/2011, working on getting airborne again!
Joe Portman
N131RV - RV-7A, IO360A1B6, CS
Rebuilt as TD
Added dual MGL EFIS.
Airborne again at last! 2/21/2009
Elmendorf, TX (28TE)
baron (AT) baron (dot) com
Last edited by N131RV : 09-25-2009 at 05:49 AM.
Reason: fixed link
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09-24-2009, 11:06 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: KANE, Hugo, Minnesota
Posts: 765
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Damaged planes
I did my flight training in a Cessna 172SP that had an engine failure on takeoff 2 years prior to me training in it. It was an AD on the the plane that had come out 1 week prior to the engine failure that actually occurred on that plane. The engine quit at 400AGL with 4 people in it. Landed on the ground after the runway, caught a fence, whipped around and stuck the prop in the ground. Engine seized, firewall, cowl and forward fuselage bent, right wing severely bent, belly skins ripped off and horizontal stabilizer damaged. All four survived unscathed. Plane received new engine and components, firewall, cockpit forward skins and bulkheads, new right wing, and skins on the fuselage belly, horizontal stabilizer skins. Plane flies as good as new. No worries as long as whoever rebuilds it knows what the heck they are doing.
__________________
Aaron Arvig
RV-9A
Empennage Done
Wings-In Progress
N568AK Reserved
SOLD?but I'll be back
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09-25-2009, 12:11 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
Posts: 216
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Inspiring!
Thank you for the replies. Joe, your story sounds very familiar. Do you think it will be hard to replace/repair the upper left longeron?
PS: the link to the post crash pictures doesn't work.
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09-25-2009, 05:58 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Elmendorf,TX
Posts: 358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene Bubberman
Thank you for the replies. Joe, your story sounds very familiar. Do you think it will be hard to replace/repair the upper left longeron?
PS: the link to the post crash pictures doesn't work.
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Link is fixed
To answer your question, yes it will be rather difficult to replace the left longeron. I would not recommend you splice or repair it. Also, check the other longeron carefully. When a flip occurs, the roll structure puts tremendous force on the longerons. It's doubtful that one escaped unscathed.
I did consult with Vans tech support about repairing my old fuselage. They stated it could be done. You would need to derivet the entire longeron and fish it out. You might have to remove some skins to reach all the rivets.
Then trim and bend a new longeron and slide it into place, match drill it and rivet it in place. I don't have pictures of your damage, but the side skins are probably stretched a bit as well.
I wish you good luck with your project.
JP
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------
Hangared since 11/23/2011, working on getting airborne again!
Joe Portman
N131RV - RV-7A, IO360A1B6, CS
Rebuilt as TD
Added dual MGL EFIS.
Airborne again at last! 2/21/2009
Elmendorf, TX (28TE)
baron (AT) baron (dot) com
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