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08-30-2009, 08:10 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 3,778
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Old wives tale... tie wraps will give you service long after you and I are gone. 
__________________
Reiley
Retired N622DR - Serial #V7A1467
VAF# 671
Repeat Offender / Race 007
Friend of the RV-1
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08-31-2009, 02:15 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 151
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Good info source
Check out Chapter 11 of AC43.13-1B and it will tell you everything you wanted to know about ties and wires.
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08-31-2009, 05:12 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Shallotte NC
Posts: 594
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Wire ties and the engine mount.
I was told by 2 seperate A&P's, and an FAA inspector to make sure that there is a piece of tape around the engine mount tubes at every zip tie location if you decide to secure your wiring that way. I prefer the adel route, but a narrow band of that awesome Gorilla tape under the tie will certainly protect the tube, and it gives the bundle a stabilizing grip as well. I keep an eye on this whenever I have the cowl off. So far, so good!!
Also, I have used the Cobra tie. It traps the sharp end and lies flat on the bundle. Can't pull them up as tight as the standard ones though. Really neat, but I have mixed emotions....
HTH,
Chris
__________________
Chris Schmitt
Shallotte, NC
RV9A 90970 N614RV
Sold to nice folks in Texas and badly missed.
RV9 in progress
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08-31-2009, 06:00 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lake St. Louis, MO.
Posts: 2,346
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Same result either way....
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil
...... I will still hand tie all my wire bundles in my RV, just in case.
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For bundling most wires, zip ties will work just fine. I prefer using lacing cord (aft of the firewall) because it is the material of choice used on virtually all the military aircraft I once helped build. Once you get the hang of tieing the knot, (clove hitch/square knot) it is a really quick and simple way to secure wire bundles and with no sharp tabs to cut your arm on later. The only tool required is scissors or pocket knife. I can't count the number of times I've cut away knots to add or subtract wires to a given bundle. You can quickly change the number or alter knot spacing on the slightest of a whims. Certainly all this can all be done with nylon zip ties but to me it comes down to what I perceive as a cosmetic issue. Lacing cord with its signature "pigtail" sprouting from the center of the knot just seems more "military" to me.
__________________
Rick Galati
RV6A N307R"Darla!"
RV-8 N308R "LuLu"
EAA Technical Counselor
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08-31-2009, 06:01 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Defiance, MO
Posts: 1,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexPeterson
Here's a wiring nightmare in the A380 test plane (this obviously won't remain once the normal interior is put in:
This picture is shot looking left into a cargo door near the nose gear, lots of zip ties.

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Looks like most of the zip ties are on the orange (flight test) wires. All the production wiring is braided and secured with adel clamps, as I would expect.
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Philip
RV-6A - 14+ years, 950+ hours
Based at 1H0 (Creve Coeur)
Paid dues yearly since 2007
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08-31-2009, 06:36 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
Table 11-22 give the appropriate Mil-Spec - MS3367 -- and, amazingly enough, this is one instance where the Aviation Dept. of Ace Hardware actually sells aviation approved items.... 
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My local Frys electronics also has MS3367 zip ties.
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"What kind of man would live where there is no daring? I don't believe in taking foolish chances but nothing can be accomplished without taking any chance at all." - Charles A. Lindbergh
Jamie | RV-7A First Flight: 7/27/2007 (Sold)
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08-31-2009, 11:06 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 1,553
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It looks like on the 380 where the zip ties are used there is some sort of wrap under them. What do they use for the wrap?
__________________
RV-8 180 hp IO-360 N247TD with 10" SkyView!
VAF Donations Made 8/2019 and 12/2019
"Cum omni alio deficiente, ludere mortuis."
(When all else fails, play dead.)
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08-31-2009, 11:24 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 645
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Tie-raps are fun!
I used cable ties all over. Made sure they are nice and thight so that nothing can vibrate, chafe or move around. I have no doubts this will be OK for many decades! I used a couple of thousend of them, added a few wires to the bundle: snip, snip, snip and add new ties around the new bundle,..... and so on.
Look under the bonnet of your car: lots of tie-raps there and they are not chafing through anything! Not through the wires nor through anything else.
I looked under the "bonnet" of a 1970's C152, a couple of weeks ago, guess what?: Loads of tie-raps! Been ther for many, many years without any problem!
At the moment I am no loosing any sleep over it.
Regards, Tonny.
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"Pilottonny"
Tonny Tromp
Lanaken, Belgium (EU)
RV9A, Registration: PH-VAN
ECI-Titan IOX-320 with dual EI, turning a Whirlwind 200RV CS prop.
Sold
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08-31-2009, 01:19 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Stoughton, WI
Posts: 473
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Evidence of wire tie wearing through engine mount?
Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy614
I was told by 2 seperate A&P's, and an FAA inspector to make sure that there is a piece of tape around the engine mount tubes at every zip tie location if you decide to secure your wiring that way. I prefer the adel route, but a narrow band of that awesome Gorilla tape under the tie will certainly protect the tube, and it gives the bundle a stabilizing grip as well.
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I was looking at a friend's 2008 Champ yesterday and it had wire ties attached directly to the engine mount. Apparently it is not an FAA requirement to put tape on the tube prior to installing the tie Wraps or they would not be allowed to do it on a brand new aircraft. That said, I prefer to put Safety tape on the engine mount prior to installing the tie wraps if for no other reason than to keep the paint from wearing. For all the old wives tales of wire ties wearing through engine mounts has anyone ever actually seen this? Does anyone have picture evidence and info on the circumstances?
__________________
Frank Smidler
N96FS, RV-6
Flying 1/11/09
1085 hr
2WI6 Stoughton, WI
Formally of Lafayette, IN
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08-31-2009, 01:32 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Winsted, CT
Posts: 57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick6a
For bundling most wires, zip ties will work just fine. I prefer using lacing cord (aft of the firewall) because it is the material of choice used on virtually all the military aircraft I once helped build. Once you get the hang of tieing the knot, (clove hitch/square knot) it is a really quick and simple way to secure wire bundles and with no sharp tabs to cut your arm on later. The only tool required is scissors or pocket knife. I can't count the number of times I've cut away knots to add or subtract wires to a given bundle. You can quickly change the number or alter knot spacing on the slightest of a whims. Certainly all this can all be done with nylon zip ties but to me it comes down to what I perceive as a cosmetic issue. Lacing cord with its signature "pigtail" sprouting from the center of the knot just seems more "military" to me.
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That is how we tie up the harnesses on all our engines here at the shop.
(Pratt & Whitney Overhaul and Repair)
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