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  #11  
Old 08-16-2009, 11:23 PM
az_gila's Avatar
az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
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Smile Or you can...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geico266 View Post
Head towards Las Vagas, New Mexico (KLVS) and hang a right. That takes you just north of Albuquerque. Stay to the north of Phoeinx, AZ and contact SOCAL approach after you cross the mountains. Make sure you plan on doing a touch & go in Death Valley. The only place you'll land where you are BELOW sea level. Best safest route, IMHO.
....take a more Southerly route and miss a lot of the mountains.

From the ABQ area, head South to Deming (DMN) then sort of follow I-10 to the Tucson area, then to Gila Bend to miss the big "R Areas" on the sectionals, then follow I-8 to Yuma and straight into San Diego staying just North of Mexico...

Cut and Paste

BDU LVS ABQ TCS DMN TUS E63 BZA SDM

....into the route box of www.skyvector.com and you can get the general idea. Did this one last year....
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  #12  
Old 08-16-2009, 11:24 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
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Location: Ashland, OR
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Smile monarch pass!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HLow View Post
Paul,

Other possibilities to get across the divide are Carona Pass near Boulder; or go south of Monarch Pass to Marshall pass (both near Salida, CO); then toward Gunnison/Montrose. Of Course you can go to Wyoming also.
Ah, Monarch Pass. Yes I know it well, gateway to Gunnison. 13213 ft. I've crossed it on bicycle. Although it is very beautiful, I recommend heading further south.
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2009, 11:31 PM
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mculver mculver is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyrcooler View Post
Not quite... while you're in Southern California... you can come to my neck of the woods - the desert resort communities from Palm Springs to La Quinta - and do below sea level (-115') T&G's at KTRM - It is a short hop from KUDD Bermuda Dunes and my back yard.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KTRM

DJ
KIPL (Imperial Valley) too at 54 feet below sea level. You get the added excitement of being on short final and seeing a control tower at an uncontrolled airport. Freaked me out, 'cause I thought for sure I'd violated Class C airspace or that I was on final for the Navy field next door (even worse). Turned out that it was just abandoned...
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  #14  
Old 08-17-2009, 10:40 AM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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Default Monarch Pass

11,312 feet...not >13,000' per this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarch_Pass
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  #15  
Old 08-18-2009, 07:47 AM
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GrayHawk GrayHawk is offline
 
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Default Fort Collins-Loveland (FNL) to San Diego

My trips to San Diego (Ramona - RNM) so far have all been a southern route, one of 2 variations:

1. FNL to Alamosa using Hayden Pass, Alamosa to Winslow, AZ using Cumbres Pass, Winslow to Ramona.
2. FNL to Raton, NM using Raton Pass, Raton to Winslow, AZ, Winslow to Ramona.

Hoping to work up the nerve to go over the top, to Granby, CO, Granby to Page AZ, Page to Ramona.
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  #16  
Old 08-18-2009, 10:02 AM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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GrayHawk it is all about risk tolerance. FNL to Granby does not look too bad since you do open up to a valley towards Glenwood Springs and Grand Junction. I don't fly extended periods over mountainous terrain. Likely for the same reason that you don't.

Fact is that in some areas of Utah, there may not be mountains but I consider the terrain less than hospitable for a uneventful landing.

Another option is FNL south and cross over the front range around the SW Denver area. That opens up then south to cross at Monarch pass. Easy from there on.

One good thing about this option or similar is that you can fly by Four Corners, Monument Valley (near UT25), and over the Grand canyon (get the GC map).
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  #17  
Old 08-18-2009, 11:07 AM
WhiskeyMike WhiskeyMike is offline
 
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Location: WA State
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Default Altitude vs Time

I noticed that some of the routes provided as "safer" options still involve prolonged flight over generally unlandable terrain, and in some cases the terrain was not materially lower in elevation compared to more direct routes. Is the reason for this primarily due to the lack of onboard O2?

If you have O2, does it not provide a lower risk profile to fly over the higher terrain if doing so results in less "time" spent over unlandable terrain? I'm interested to hear what the "Altitude vs Time" calculus is on this issue for you seasoned mountain flyers. Thanks.
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  #18  
Old 08-18-2009, 11:52 AM
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AZtailwind AZtailwind is offline
 
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Default Early Morning

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayHawk View Post
1. FNL to Alamosa using Hayden Pass, Alamosa to Winslow, AZ using Cumbres Pass, Winslow to Ramona.
Some of the of the most beautiful flights I have done Is through Hayden- then on to Wolf creek pass over the highway (or short cut the pass direct at times). 6Am in the morning with no turb at all- that is the key if you would like to enjoy the ride. I would recommend very early mornings to all first time rocky crossers!
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  #19  
Old 08-18-2009, 12:47 PM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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Bill, O2 may allow you to fly high enough that you could reach a road. Having driven over some of the areas that I fly over, I generally assume that desert areas are not good for landing. Yes you may survive. But whether you can land without significant damage to the aircraft is questionable IMO. I can't prove it (aircraft damage) but given a road and some of the terrain I have seen that may look flat and smooth from 8000' AGL, I will go for the road.

On one trip from COS/00V to Page AZ I diverted a bit south to be closer to a road. Also have flown near the same road departing Page until I got high enough to have more options.

I have flown places where an engine out would have put me in an ocean, in mountainous terrain or in a desert. I just try to minimize that exposure.

Last edited by Ron Lee : 08-18-2009 at 12:52 PM.
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  #20  
Old 08-18-2009, 02:54 PM
WhiskeyMike WhiskeyMike is offline
 
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Thanks for your comments Ron.

Here's an example of what I'm thinking using the exercise that was set forth in this post of "navigating" the high Rockies enroute from Ft. Collins to San Diego (this example only goes as far as Cortez, CO but gets you west of the real high mountains - and O2 is required). Here is the route: fnl;rlg/v;dbl/v;99v;mtj/v;cez - If you copy and paste this route into runwayfinder.com you'll see that you can go nearly direct over the very highest part of the Rockies and never be much further than 50 NM from an airport (either waypoints or short deviations from the route). At RV curise speeds (say 150 KTAS) this means that you are never more than about 20 minutes from being within reach of an airport if you need to land.

To me, this could be a less risky flight than one at lower altitudes with more sustained time over unlandable terrain, be it the ocean, desert, etc., because you spend less actual time exposed to peril. If you continue the flight from Cortez to Winslow, AZ you have a considerably longer stretch between airports and over unlandable terrain than you do using the route above through the "high country". I'm wondering if more folks feel comfortable with flying longer (in time) stretches over hostile landscapes (albeit at lower altitudes) than they do going high over the "hills" even when the actual time of exposure may be shorter...

It should be noted that my comparison only considers the "quantity" of exposure in time, but we know that exposure also has a qualitative component as well. The survivability of a forced landing in the tall mountains is likely to be lower than over a relatively flat desert or ocean, and therefore a proper risk analysis must consider these factors as well.

I've done quite a bit of soaring in the Cascades, Sierra Nevada and the Rockies, and have always been moved by the breathtaking beauty of those alpine environments ("Familiarity Bias" alert!). But I know that flying RVs in the mountains is a different ballgame...for one thing, the glide ratio is not quite as good .
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Last edited by WhiskeyMike : 08-18-2009 at 03:37 PM. Reason: sp correction
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