Playing Tanker

[Ironflight]

I have been through the rationale on the fuel trailer, but it just doesn't work out for me. First, it is not unheard of for Louise and I to go through a hundred gallons in a week. (Transporting more than that at a time is big-time regulated in Texas). We know where we could get a 250 gallon trailer, but getting it here would cost quite a bit in truck gas, and then driving the 30 miles down and back to the closest "cheap fuel" airport would eat up considerably more gas. If I burned MOGAS, it might make more sense, but recouping the cost of set-up and operation wouldn't happen in our lifetime - hence, the topic of the thread on figuring out how to "fly" the cheap fuel in.

We DO keep about 25 gallons of Avgas on hand in cans in our hangar when we want to top off before going somewhere BTW - full tanks at ANY cost are a great safety factor when departing on a long IFR cross-country!

[Geico266]

Originally Posted by Ironflight

If I burned MOGAS, it might make more sense, but recouping the cost of set-up and operation wouldn't happen in our lifetime - hence, the topic of the thread on figuring out how to "fly" the cheap fuel in.

I have about $700 invested in my trailer including dual filter system, 12V pump, fuel meter, trailer, ect. If you just use it to top your tanks off you won't need but say 20 -30 gallons a week of mogas. I save $1.00 a gallon over 100ll min. At that rate it would take you less than a year to pay for the whole rig, and from there on out your depression era parents would be mighty proud. Savings is savings, and like you said the safety of having full tanks on a CC is a good thing also. And!!!! you don't have to pour the fuel in from heavy cans, you can turn the pump on and measure exactly how much you are putting in.

No problems here using the fuel trailer for over 10 years and it is 100 gallons, I'm pretty sure anything under 100 gallons is okay, in NE anyway. I "farm" also so it is a fuel wagon for my "crop dusters". hehehe

[rv7charlie]

Are there rules at your airpark against having a fuel farm? Tanks & pumps aren't that expensive if you can share the cost with several other owners. IIRC, we got a 1,000 gal tank, pump, long hose, meter, etc, all new stuff, for around $1200 which we split 3 or 4 ways. If you watch local farm publications, you can pick up everything used for much less. I bought 2 tanks (1k gal diesel & 550 gal gas) with gas station style pumps from a retiring farmer a few years ago for a little over $200. With a good water trap & filter, even used tanks are safe to fuel from.

With a fixed tank, we just call the wholesaler & have a load delivered. The wholesale price delivered is typically about the same price as the cheapest to be found in a 150 mile radius and Much cheaper than any of the local airports.

Charlie
(But I still haul premium mogas in 5gal cans because it just runs better in my 160hp O-320. I really need to get one of those tanks set up for mogas....)

[Ironflight]

Originally Posted by rv7charlie

Are there rules at your airpark against having a fuel farm?

Airpark rules? Nope. City of Friendswwod? Well, I have to point out that we are literally in the middle of a major residential, suburban neighborhhod. Our runway is narrower than most of the streets, and we have houses everywhere. At the very least, we'd be regulated the same as a gas station. This is not an edge-of-town, rural environment.

But...this thread is not really about us having/not having gas at our field, or burning Mogas. I KNOW there are lots of folks out there with expensive fuel at their home fields that go elsewhere to gas up. This is about the thought process of "where does it make sense to go?" For instance, if I want the hypothetical 20 gallons of fuel in my hangar, and the very nearby field is charging a dollar a gallon more than the place that costs me $10 to fly to (round trip), then I have saved ten bucks (and gotten to fly in the process)! The spreadsheet just gives a little structure to the insight process.

Paul

[plehrke]

Originally Posted by Ironflight

In an attempt to try and at least clarify the problem, I built a little spreadsheet that considers a flight to go and get 20 gallons of gas. It considers the price at each airport, the distance to the airport, and a set of variables such as fuel burn and ground speed that are held constant for each case.

What, no correction for wind?


I have pretty cheap fuel available on my airport (now that they switched from AirBP to Phillips). I still stop at the neighboring airport to get gas as an excuse to go fly and "show off" the RV at the other airport. I am flying anyway.

[Davepar]

Originally Posted by Ironflight

After filling, the receipt said it was $3.65/gallon!

Ouch! Oh, wait a minute. I just paid $4.85/gal for my fill up yesterday at my home airport (with 2 competing FBOs). And the fill up before that was $5.32, but that was because I was chasing $3.50 fuel that was no longer there and had to go to the really expensive place. Guess I can't muster up any sympathy after all.

I've thought about this problem as well. So what are the different scenarios?

1. I don't care where I fly within a certain radius, but I want to top off with some cheap fuel somewhere.
2. I'm flying to KXXX, and need to fill up on the way there (or way back) before the fuel level gets below X.
3. And the really hard one, I'm flying cross country to OSH and want to compare the cost of flying route X vs. route Y.

[RV7Guy]

Wow, Paul, you have too much time on your hands that you are considering this and making a spread sheet. Most guys I fly with a couple of other criteria that weighs in.

According to your chart the most expensive trip cost for fuel is $14.35. For me and the guys I fly with the BS factor takes precedent. I'd have to be empty and fuel would have to have at least a dollar difference to fly else where fuel.

In most cases, the cost, the time and wear and tear on the engine are not worth a couple of bucks. Maybe for some, but definitely not for me. Your savings are minimal when all factors are considered.

Now, go back to building the 3.

[Bill Wightman]

Saving fuel by topping off at the most logical airport is always on our minds, and like Paul, I'll do a spreadsheet for quick analysis at the drop of a hat.

There is *another* way to save fuel, however: and in the airline business, we call it "ferrying fuel". It works like this:

When at a cheap out station, we take advantage of the better price (or tax rate) by filling the plane with more fuel than we need for the trip. Then, when getting into the hub, the fuel-up for the next leg takes that much less. The cost of ferrying the fuel on the inbound leg is included, of course.

We could do this in our RV's too, if we had auxiliary fuel tanks - and some builders have incorporated aux tanks into their RV's. So, on the inbound leg if fuel is cheap at the out station, top off the mains + auxes and then you'll have less to buy at home, or maybe even could have full main tanks if the inbound leg wasn't too long.
I like this idea...

[Ironflight]

Originally Posted by Davepar

3. And the really hard one, I'm flying cross country to OSH and want to compare the cost of flying route X vs. route Y.

AirNav can do this one for you Dave - you go into their "fuel trip planner" (or whatever it is called), and it will give you various routes based on the criteria you select (range between stops is the sginificant one). It's pretty handy for a long trip!

BTW - I do find that when fuel prices are dynamic (changing quickly), Airnav can fall behind and give you bad data.

[jetjok]

Paul,
I am not an engineer, and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express. But, you need to add .05/gal offset to your price if you get to use the "I need fuel" excuse for a chance to go fly. If the airport has a good restaurant, it goes up to .08/gal!! Disagree if you want, but just don't tell my bride!
Great spreadsheet, and I am sure that it will be very useful to all of us.
Thanks!