Amateur Built vs ELSA

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by SteinAir

This is an interesting thread...that shows each persons perception of "value" depends exactly on each persons perception. For a variety of reasons, different people perceive different things as more or less valuable. It's folly and impossible at this point to argue about the exact outcome E-AB vs. ELSA when exactly ZERO of them have been registered either way. I've seen some assumptions made that are possibly somewhat correct, but also possibly somewhat incorrect.

Anyway, I guess in the end we'll have to wait and see. In general my gut feel is that the ELSA's would be a bit more valuable on the market over the EAB's all things being equal, but time will ultimately tell so I refuse to make an actual prediction on #'s until we see because I just don't know. <snip>

Cheers,
Stein

I started to write a response last night... but was interrupted by the "Twins Chorus". Stein mirrored many of my initial notes.

I have a theory (note the choice of words) that there MAY be some added value to many second or later purchasers (of E-LSA's) who like the added "security" of knowing that it was built exactly "per-plans" using supplied parts and that in theory - there should be no surprises. I also theorize that these same specifics MAY also lead to a slightly lessor insurance cost vs. an E-AB. Lastly - for the many that have opined here on the board about the potential liabilities of selling your E-AB - I also theorize that your exposure MAY be somewhat less with an E-LSA. Ultimately this all MAY result in an increased value of an E-LSA over an E-AB. Will it be 30%? I don't think so... but I could easily see 10% to 15%.

Being that my crystal ball is as hazy as everyone else's... those are my two cents worth... and worth every cent!

DJ

[KPmarc]

I'm unconvinced that you can pin an actual number on the benefit, but you might do some good by increasing the pool of likely buyers. Same effect as two RV-6As, one with a Lycoming and one with an alternative engine. They MIGHT sell for the same amount, but the number of people interested in the conventionally equipped airplane is going to be a lot larger. (However, history also suggests that the alternative-engine aircraft will also sell for less, all else equal.)

Still waiting for Carol to resurface with a few facts to support the claim.

[Peterk]

Originally Posted by KPmarc

I'm unconvinced that you can pin an actual number on the benefit, but you might do some good by increasing the pool of likely buyers. Same effect as two RV-6As, one with a Lycoming and one with an alternative engine. They MIGHT sell for the same amount, but the number of people interested in the conventionally equipped airplane is going to be a lot larger. (However, history also suggests that the alternative-engine aircraft will also sell for less, all else equal.)

Still waiting for Carol to resurface with a few facts to support the claim.

Marc,

What is your opinion as to why Van is the ONLY one to stick his toe in the ELSA water? Is it just his view of the future? Like Cirrus hanging their hat on the jet and forsaking the LSA? Obviously Van is watching baby boomers (and potential newcomers). Duluth appears to be counting on a repeat of their success taking over the GA recip market...if there is one left. My money is on Van.

[toolted]

I fly a CGS Hawk Arrow Plus, heavy fast UL, so I empathize with your position. My question is this: Is there any way to get an ELSA cert for an RV-3B? With the right small motor it would seem to be a natural.

The advantage is the avoidance of the medical testing associated with the private ticket. For many of us old folks, this is a big deal.

[Mel]

Originally Posted by toolted

My question is this: Is there any way to get an ELSA cert for an RV-3B? With the right small motor it would seem to be a natural.

Only 2 ways to get an E-LSA. 1/ An E-LSA kit provided by a kit manufacturer who has certificated an S-LSA of the same exact model. and 2/ a down grade of an S-LSA. The RV-3 qualifies on neither count.

Now having said that, if you can show that your RV-3 meets LSA parameters, then you can fly it as a sport pilot. The aircraft does not have to be registered as light sport, it just has to meet the parameters of light sport.
Basically; 1320 lbs. max gross weight, Not over 120 kts. at max rated power, and clean stall speed of not more than 45 kts.

[Mich48041]

Is there any way to get an ELSA cert for an RV-3B?

No, not unless it was previously registered as an E-LSA before the January 31, 2008 deadline. However with a driver's license in lieu of a medical, you can fly any airplane that meets the definition of LSA no matter how it is registered. It can be type certificated or experimental or whatever. As long as it stalls at a slow speed and does not go too fast and does not have a prop that changes pitch in the air and the gear does not retract and does not weigh too much, then you do not need a medical to fly it. Check out the EAA's website for the definition of LSA to get all of the facts. http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/aircraft_index.html
Joe

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by toolted

I fly a CGS Hawk Arrow Plus, heavy fast UL, so I empathize with your position. My question is this: Is there any way to get an ELSA cert for an RV-3B? With the right small motor it would seem to be a natural.

The advantage is the avoidance of the medical testing associated with the private ticket. For many of us old folks, this is a big deal.

Why put a "small" motor in it? Do what CubCrafters is doing with their new "SUPER Sport Club". http://cubcrafters.com/supersportcub/engine.aspx
It is an S-LSA with an ECI CC340 - 180HP engine that the manufacturer only rates at 80 hp CONTINUOUS! Uh-huh... nobody will exceed that 80 hp. continuous...

Sounds like having your cake and eating it too... But then we are getting a bit OT...

DJ

[hydroguy2]

Originally Posted by Peterk

.......why Van is the ONLY one to stick his toe in the ELSA water? ......

Not the ONLY one. Rans has 3 nice E-LSA models. I'm sure there are others.

[Peterk]

Originally Posted by hydroguy2

Not the ONLY one. Rans has 3 nice E-LSA models. I'm sure there are others.

Brian,

They are very nice but I believe they are kit planes under the 51 percent rule built as EAB's. They are allowed to be flown as sport planes because of their parameters. And then again, I could be wrong...it has happened.

[Mich48041]

Not the ONLY one. Rans has 3 nice E-LSA models. I'm sure there are others.

At present, there are NO airplanes that can be registered as E-LSA. In order to do so, one must have a certificate from the manufacturer. Van's Aircraft is the only manufacturer that has agreed to provide that certificate. At least that is their intent after they get their S-LSA paperwork in order. An aircraft does not need to be registered as an E-LSA to be flown by a pilot using a driver's license in lieu of a medical. All that is required is that the aircraft meet the definition of LSA. There are some type certificated and some experimental and all S-LSA that meet that definition.
Joe