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04-01-2009, 01:45 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Corvallis Oregon
Posts: 3,547
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There is
a great deal of advantage in being able to burn the same stuff that cars do..The sheer volume of the stuff means it will always be the cheapest available...It would be very useful if this stuff was also available at airports so that those that can use it (most experimantal aircraft can at least).
So while I too have nothing against hotrods, it seems this 100LL fuel is the standard fuel even though its overkill for most of the piston engined fleet.
In the meantime I'll keep lugging it to the airport in cans..
Frank
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04-02-2009, 07:35 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bolingbrook, Illiniois
Posts: 254
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Fingers faster than my brain
Frank,
what I meant to say was the old Dodge went to hardened valves to handle the no lead. They forgot to change the guides and they got chewed up at about 25000 miles (ask me how I know!) In any case it makes sense that if they went to the hardened valve seats they took care of the rest too! I hate it when I wash my hands and can't do a thing with them.
Thanks for the reply,
Paul
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Paul
N694BP reserved
RV-6A Very Slow Build!
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04-02-2009, 09:29 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Estacada, OR
Posts: 787
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Sorghum may be what they used for the fuel they are testing, but it is not necessarily the only source. Supposedly they could use switchgrass and a variety of cellulose sources.
Big article in the latest Aviation Consumer about Swift Fuel. About half positive, about half uncertain about whether the stuff will be viable in the market place. Swift says they can make it for $2 per gallon, but distribution costs, insurance and all the other expenses could run the retail price to more than double that--so speculates Aviation Consumer.
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Richard Scott
RV-9A Fuselage
1941 Interstate Cadet
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04-03-2009, 06:52 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketbob
I figured out about 800 hours ago that 87 octane works just fine.
There is one thing about Swift fuel thats a minus... its made from sorghum, and its seasonal, so they can't get enough of it to make it in the winter months.
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Can also be made from switch grass. Smells funny too.
But you are right - the volume of raw material necessary to produce the fuel year round would make it less than optimal to actually ship it just to make fuel - something like 1 ton per barrel. Using switch grass and putting the plant south-central, you could probably get 9 months of productivity, but still - how many plants can afford to sit idle 3 months per year?
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04-03-2009, 07:16 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Not quite sure I understand this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbakerok
Anyone who NEEDS 100 octane can already buy unleaded 100 racing fuel just about anywhere in the country. When 100LL goes away, Lyc and Cont will certify it for the few engines that need it and the big airports will start to carry it.
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Jon, Can you enlighten me on this? There are a lot of people that have been trying to come up with 100 octane without lead for a number of years now and they haven't been able to do it. Can you tell us where this fuel is available and what they use to obtain 100 octane? Around the Dallas area the race car drivers line up at the airport on Fridays.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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04-03-2009, 07:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gilbert, AZ (and missing TX)
Posts: 54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
Jon, Can you enlighten me on this? There are a lot of people that have been trying to come up with 100 octane without lead for a number of years now and they haven't been able to do it. Can you tell us where this fuel is available and what they use to obtain 100 octane? Around the Dallas area the race car drivers line up at the airport on Fridays.
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Both VP fuels and Sunoco make unleaded fuels with >99 Octane.
http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consum...UnleadedFuels/
http://vpracingfuels.com/fuels_unleaded.asp
We used to us av gas all the time for our hotrods, because it was considerably cheaper than racing fuel. I haven't priced racing fuels in quite some time, so I don't know if that holds true anymore.
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04-03-2009, 07:53 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpNurse
Both VP fuels and Sunoco make unleaded fuels with >99 Octane...
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Yep, you can get it here in Charlotte right from the pump. Of course, a lot of people use the stuff who don't need it.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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04-03-2009, 06:04 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 2,484
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Those who say that "hot rods" are the ones who need 100LL are quite mistaken. Ameriflight out here on the west cost uses a bunch of it for their Piper Cheiftains that they fly daily to deliver checks and mail....
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Stephen Samuelian, CFII, A&P IA, CTO
RV4 wing in Jig @ KPOC
RV7 emp built
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04-03-2009, 08:58 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Corvallis Oregon
Posts: 3,547
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Eh?
Does the Cheiftan run a turbo on a 540 or something..I know that only a few of the certified motors need 100LL..and these really are hotrods compared to the engines most of the fleet run..
For the run of the mill Lyc 360/540 with normal compression then 100 octane fuel is simply unecessary...
Now they may need it for a different reason, i.e vapour lock prevention, but that is avoidable by modifying (or even better correctly designing in the first place) the fuel pumping system.
Personally I'd like to see 100LL go away just to stop burning lead.
Frank
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04-04-2009, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sedona Arizona
Posts: 349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpNurse
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We have Trick Racing Fuel available locally in Seattle area. I have experimented with using 101 Octane Unleaded. It was very expensive though. Sorry can't remember the exact price and it was too long ago to matter.
I sure miss the Mogas that was available at some airports. The alcohol in the fuel and the STC mess seems to have put an end to that...
Randy C
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