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03-30-2009, 11:02 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 823
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Are RV's Designed to Fly in IMC
I was at Van's today and told a guy I was installing enough avionics in my RV-7A to fly legal IFR in IMC. He said, "why? RV's aren't designed to fly in IMC." I said, "if my Cherokee can fly IMC my RV-7A should be able to." He said, "no!, and went on about IMC having ice, and that RV's are not as stable as a Cherokee, etc, etc.
So, of you guys who fly an RV in actual IMC, tell us about it? I'm talking about easy IMC like climbing through 3000 - 6000 foot thick stratus layer to get on top, or come back down. Or in summer through cumulus clouds. Is the RV stable enough to hand fly by attitude indicator and DG in IMC? Is the RV easy to hold altitude by reference to instruments only? Is an RV easy to recover from unusual attitude by instrument only in actual IMC? Do you think autopilot is manditory for IMC in an RV? Is electric trim a help or hinder? Are the systems you installed redundant enough for safe IMC?
Thanks for sharing your actual IMC experience in an RV with us.
__________________
Steve Lynn
RV-7A
Flying Phase I
Anacortes, WA
www.mykitlog.com/sglynn
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03-30-2009, 11:51 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 110
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Sounds like a little CYA if it was a Van's employee.
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03-31-2009, 12:09 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
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It is more difficult than a Cherokee
I fly my RV-6A in IMC. I flew my Archer II to work every day for 15 years and never used the autopilot so I did not put one in my RV-6A. I retired and flew it that way in IMC for a year - no autopilot. It was a bear for me. Any amendment to clearance or non flying task like changing charts was done with great caution and excursions from heading and altitude were not uncommon during any distraction and cautions from ATC were also not uncommon. I have very basic /U equipment and the workload is high. I installed a Tru Trak Pictorial Pilot for directional control and an ALTRAC for altitude hold and it is a wonderfully different experience to fly in easy IMC as you describe. I personally believe that if you are instrument rated, building an RV for travel that can only fly in VMC is a mistake. Even if you do not want to fly in IMC or stay current having the capability can save you in an unanticipated situation. I also feel that an autopilot with altitude hold is essential for routine IMC operations. Years ago Van's had a pilot evaluate an RV for compatibility with IFR/IMC flight operations and he reported that he found it was compatible. This was reported in an issue of the company magazine "RVator." It is not easy to fly in IMC and it should not be surprising that the company discourages it.
Bob Axsom
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03-31-2009, 01:10 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, wa
Posts: 679
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If you accept the risk of flying SE IMC and the limited options you have in the event of engine failure, ability to climb quickly (compared to a jet), then the issue becomes one of pilot proficiency, equipment, autopilot, etc. Ice / snow is an induction problem in RVs and the ability to deal with it will vary from on installation to the next. Of course it would be an airframe issue as well if it were allowed to build. We have lost RVs with induction contamination issues. How much is ok? ZERO is ok. Some might not be ok. Very difficult to quantify this so the best answer is ZERO. (Remember in school the test instructions said select the best answer).
Of course you could build an IFR panel and file/fly IFR in VMC and take advantage of the ATC handling while it's still free.
Hard core IMC that goes all the way to the ground is not cool in a SE airplane. RV or otherwise. You get so used to practicing engine out drills in multi-engine airplanes, then one day recognize in a SE the drill (in IMC that goes to the ground) glide, crash, die.
There are ways of course to stack the deck in your favor but in the end it's a calculated risk I'm not willing to take.
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03-31-2009, 02:29 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,670
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The question was: Are RV's designed to fly in IMC?
All aircraft designs are by nature a compromise. Van has made what the market has determined to be an excellent compromise of flying qualities that appeal to many of us. By design, the RV series is not the absolute best at any one thing, and that may well be the genius of the design philosophy.
Pick any one "mission", and you can undoubtedly find another aircraft that does that mission better. But it is very difficult to find an aircraft that performs the variety of missions as well as the RV series, hence the success of the design.
So, was the RV "designed" for IMC flight? Not really. But is it capable of IMC flight? My answer would be "Certainly". And even more so if properly equipped. Flying an RV IMC solo without an autopilot reminds me of flying cross-country in an A-4 Skyhawk with no autopilot. (Been there, ... Done that!) There is no doubt that the RV's can fly IMC, they are flown IMC successfully all the time.
It is up to each operator to decide whether or not they want to fly IMC in their RV.
Speaking for myself only, I plan to properly equip my purchased RV-6A for IFR flight, and operate it in IMC conditions on occasion, but only after a thorough instrument refresher, as my IFR skills have deteriorated due to lack of practice.
Pete Hunt
ATP, CFII, A&P
__________________
Pete Hunt, [San Diego] VAF #1069
RV-6, RV-6A, T-6G
ATP, CFII, A&P
2020 Donation+, Gladly Sent
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03-31-2009, 02:37 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, wa
Posts: 679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCHunt
The question was: Are RV's designed to fly in IMC?
So, was the RV "designed" for IMC flight? Not really.
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If you ask the Van-the-man the answer is more definitive. It's no.
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03-31-2009, 02:54 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asav8tor
If you ask the Van-the-man the answer is more definitive. It's no.
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Are you trying to say that RV's should not be flown in IMC? And also, "the other side of the coin," if RV's, as you assert, are not designed for IMC, the obvious question is: What ARE they designed for?
Seems to me that each builder or operator has the freedom to utilize the magnificent RV airframe in a manner that they choose. Maybe they would want to do aerobatics in the morning, formation in the afternoon, and IMC cross country at night!
Not very many aircraft can do that!!
Love my RV!   
__________________
Pete Hunt, [San Diego] VAF #1069
RV-6, RV-6A, T-6G
ATP, CFII, A&P
2020 Donation+, Gladly Sent
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03-31-2009, 03:16 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, wa
Posts: 679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCHunt
Are you trying to say that RV's should not be flown in IMC? And also, "the other side of the coin," if RV's, as you assert, are not designed for IMC, the obvious question is: What ARE they designed for?
Seems to me that each builder or operator has the freedom to utilize the magnificent RV airframe in a manner that they choose. Maybe they would want to do aerobatics in the morning, formation in the afternoon, and IMC cross country at night!
Not very many aircraft can do that!!
Love my RV!   
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No argument with any of that.
I was responding to the original question that you had restated and pointing out the designed intent of the designer..... Van. His answer is very short....no.
The rest of us can do whatever we want. Think whatever we want. Operate the aircraft however we want. But none of that will change the answer to the question. 
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03-31-2009, 04:13 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Leesburg, va
Posts: 213
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RVator says no
One of the RVator magazines states that RV's are not built for IMC, that being there are a lot of RV's capable of flying in IMC and do it regularly.
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03-31-2009, 04:32 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, wa
Posts: 679
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Designed - done by the designer; Was it designed for IMC - no.
Built - done by the builder; Could it be built for IMC - yes.
Flown - done by the pilot; Could it be flow in IMC - yes.
Three different things. Three different questions. Three different answers.
I think this thread has now covered all adequately.
Would I do it?
no.
Last edited by asav8tor : 03-31-2009 at 04:40 AM.
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