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03-11-2009, 10:06 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: KANE, Hugo, Minnesota
Posts: 765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N200PF
Aaron was it a mistake for me to invite you over to check out the RV-7 progress on Sunday? (He did sit in fuselage and run the controls...which I do every time I finish a work session!)  I could see the fire in your eyes when you left! That passion will be an important component for you when finishing your project one day!
...in the mean time, we'll take the -6 over the EAU for pancakes! (until my -7 is done!)
- Peter
PS - I'm kidding! It was great to have you over! Feel free to bring Kari by so she can see what it's all about. My wife Beth would be happy to share how it's been for her over the last 3 years with me in the shop sanding wing ribs etc. at all hours of the morning. It's tough but doable if managed properly.
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Yeah Peter, seeing one in progress definitely got the fire burning even hotter. I think Tom knew what he was doing when he invited me over. I think deep down inside he wants to keep the build projects going in the cities so he has some planes to build in retirement! 
I'll definitely take you up on pancakes at EAU. You won't have to twist my arm at all. I never did get your number. PM it to me if you want.
For those following the thread, Peter had me over to his house to look at his in progress RV-7 last Sunday. Wings were done, fuselage was in progress, tail was done. So, I walk into the basement of his house and all of a sudden there was the object of my affection right there in the basement. A real RV-7 kitplane. Very good job on the building. Yes, I sat in it, and yes I wanted to make airplane sounds and dive bomb the screen porch, but I refrained. Seeing Peters plane made me realize that the project is doable. Thanks Peter!
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03-11-2009, 11:39 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 33
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I am plans building a Mustang II. In plans building you buy a set of plans, usually about $400, and you fabricate most of the parts from raw materials. Kit manufacturers who sell plans will sell you the individual parts that you can't or don't want to make yourself. Plans building takes longer but is much cheaper. The Sonex is an excellent aircraft that can be plans built. Also, the Sonex will fly very well on a VW engine which is very reasonably priced. One advantage of plans building is the low cost of getting started. You could actually start making parts with a total outlay of about $1,500. That would include the plans, some tools and some aluminum sheet. Another advantage of plans building is actually learning building aluminum aircraft from A-Z. I don't think that happens when you buy kits. Also, there's a lot of enjoyment to be had in layout and forming of intricate shapes. It's a real skill that you will develop if you plans build.
Any aircraft that you put a Lycoming engine in will be very expensive. Think in terms of a $40,000 minimum. Add hanger, insurance and all the other ongoing costs and it gets very expensive real quick. Should you wait? Absolutely not. But I would make the RV my second or third plane, not my first.
PS: Minimum tools you will need to start will include aviation quality tin snips, blue fine tip Sharpies, thin flexable metal ruler, a table top sander with one 8" disc and one 1" belt on the same machine, a table top jig saw, a plastic dead blow hammer, a pair of fluting pliers, a pair of hand seaming pliers and of course a hand held drill of some kind.
Last edited by wvshooter : 03-11-2009 at 11:53 PM.
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03-12-2009, 12:16 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Guntersville AL ; Humble TX
Posts: 107
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 Lots of good practical advice above but sometimes its about passion...
I think Dreams are the secret to a good life, a goal to strive toward when we're looking for direction, an escape from reality when needed, and dreams can sometimes define our future and the paths we take. The nicest thing about dreams are they do not have to be practical. There is plenty of demand for practical in our lives but that doesn't mean we have to give up on our dreams... we just need to be practical in pursuing them and keep them in perspective with all of our other responsibilities.
A very early lesson came with my first assignment after flight school. One of the guys in the squadron was building a pool. This man and his wife had sacrificed and lived a very frugal life so they could enjoy their retirement. All he talked about while I was getting my combat readiness certification was all the plans they had and the things they were going to do in retirement. He retired while I was on my first tour in Southeast Asia, and died before I completed the tour. This guy died of a heart attack in his mid 40s, a man who six months before had been flying his own combat missions and anyone would have believed was a picture of good health (like the USAF Flt Surgeons!). As the man said earlier - there are no guarantees for tomorrow. Plan for it, but don't put off living for it.
Never quit dreaming and live your dreams when you can. Don't regret that you didn't do something, be positive that some dreams, like the dreams you have for your family, may push some of your other dreams downstream a little. An RV might be way down the list but buy a used tail kit when you think you can, there's plenty of discarded and neglected ones out there that can be had cheap. Take your time, there is no race but it will tell you if this is something you really want to do. In the meantime you are more than a dreamer, you're a builder, you even get a kit number! So what if it takes you 10 years before you look for the next part? Gives you time to live the other parts of your life and its easier to get your wife involved working with you if you're not sacrificing everything else for "your" airplane - and you need her to Really make it work!
Flying is tough to get out of your system... if you're a dreamer...
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03-12-2009, 06:00 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Richmond, Victoria, Australia.
Posts: 184
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A reasonable comparison...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aarvig
I am 34 years old, have 3 kids, six figure student loans, a mortgage and a 5 year old business. I recently started working on my private pilot license and am about to solo. Well, much to the chagrin of my wife the flying bug bit me again, harder than ever before. (I think I have a disease  ) Because of this, the desire to build a plane has had me researching everything from a Sonex to the RV. Of course, my dream plane is an RV-7A. My plan would be to build the RV as "affordably" as possible. Basic day/night VFR panel, fixed pitch prop, no paint for now, and an overhauled O/IO-360. Hoping to come in around $55k. Financially, I can do this over about 7-10 years with my current income which I hope will go up but I am considering it to remain the same for the purposes of this financial exercise. If my income goes up, the time to build comes down. So after the excitement of considering the build wore off I realized I have to afford to operate this thing. YIKES. So I was hoping I could get some information on how much annual operating costs for an RV were as well as some of your stories as to how you managed to pay for the build and pay to fly the finished product so I can determine if the RV is the right plane for my situation.
The other option I considered was to build a Sonex with a 3300 Jabiru engine and fly it till I could afford to build and fly the RV. But, the Sonex just isn't even close to an RV. Its not really what I want but I know that right now I can afford to build and fly one. All these difficult decisions!  Bottom line, I need to know if I can afford it and keep my family together and happy at the same time. Thanks ahead for all your advice.
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Aaron -
I am (kind of) you....about three years down the track....
I am literally addicted to flying but family comes first.
I'm 37, married, 2 kids, started building an RV-7 two years ago.....nearly flying.
From a work perspective I run my own architectural practice with 30 staff, however I have three other small businesses which are somewhat demanding as well. I have been my own boss for ten years now.
I am fortunate enough to be financially comfortable but believe me I have got a fat mortgage and expensive private education fees for both kids.
If you can manage a business successfully you are clearly capable of making the decision about whether or not you can afford to build while you have got a mortgage and other associated expenses.
That's the easy bit. Managing the family/life/airplane building balance is the Black Art.....it can be done, but it isn't easy.
I would stick by the following rules:
1. Build at home that way you can balance your time more easily (I didn't follow this rule - built at my farm in the hangar which meant a day trip every time i wanted to work on it!).
2. If you are ever feeling guilty about working on your RV you probably shouldn't be working on it. Drop it and spend some time with wife or kids or at office or whatever else it is that is making you feel that way....your project will still be waiting for you in the shed when you come back another day.
3. Believe in yourself and understand that what you are doing is good for you personally. This is not a selfish attitude. Many families have failed because individuals have departed after suffering from the feeling of failure associated with a lack of self achievement in life. I have developed a very successful architectural practice with my two business partners however I can tell you that my family and my RV are more important achievements in my opinion (lucky my business partners don't read this forum!!!). Plenty of people criticise my choice in life to build an aeroplane (including to some degree my parents!) but frankly they just don't get it. Just remember that your wife and children need to feel a sense of personal achievement just as much as you do.
4. Finally - if you are feeling time pressured and you are struggling with the project get some help if you can afford it and DON'T set unrealistic goals.
So if you take it on it will take a long time but eventually it will fly. Apparently it's the golden egg thing when that happens....however I can't speak from experience because I a still building and LOVING every moment of it that I squeeze into my busy life....I won't be lying on my deathbed wishing!!!
Cheers,
JON
__________________
Jon Clements
RV-7 VH-JWC (Flying)
Little River Airfield, Victoria, Australia
ASP IO-360-M1 Hartzell CS Blended Airfoil
Dual GRT HX, GNS 430W, TruTrak DII VSGV, SL40, GTX327, PSE 9000EX, AVMAP EKP-IV.
Approach Fast Stack Integration.
Classic Aero Interior.
Last edited by Jon Clements : 03-13-2009 at 06:48 AM.
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06-11-2009, 08:59 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Auburn, AL
Posts: 189
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Step back, take a deep breath and look at the big picture
I got bit by the flying bug as a boy sitting in the cockpit of a Stearman. I actually had a chance to buy an aircraft in my late 20's (Cherokee with lessons through private for $10,000). I decided to walk away and put my family first. We were starting our family and my wife and I wanted her to be able to stay home with kids.
However in making that decision that I believe was right, something happened many may consider luck. I don't believe in luck. We either create our own realities or more often God blesses us based on making right decisions. Read on...
That said, a few years later I found myself in one of the top US flight schools for three years, fully funded where I got my Commercial SEL, Instrument and A&P. I graduated DEBT FREE also. I then went on to fly professionally for another 3000 hours as a missionary pilot in the rain forests of South America. AOPA did a story based on my flying experience. Here is a link to that story: http://www.aopa.org/careerpilot/cs-mission_pilot.html
Then several years into that, we took another role in the organization I flew with ( MAF) as web developer and pilot recruiter. My fellow pilots wondered if I'd gone crazy. I flew more than anyone else on the base and loved it. But again, I did what I sensed in heart was what God wanted me to do.
I walked away from flying for another 7 years.
Then through a serendipitous chain of events I have found myself going to look at an RV-8 project next week with an uber-experienced RV pilot/builder (former AF F-16 pilot, current SW captain and A&P & two time RV builder). It looks very much like I may buy this project and have it flying within a year. Goal is to fly it up to Oshkosh next year.
So what's the point? Be patient. Things have a way of working out if it is meant to be. I hope this helps.
Bottom line: Been there done that and know exactly how you feel right now. I wouldn't trade anything for the aviation experience I have been blessed to be a part of and in the way it all unfolded in my lifetime.
BTW if interested I am web developer ( I now own my own web dev company) for a group being featured in this years EAA called Fly4Life. Our website is here www.iamanet.org
Blessings,
Sandy
__________________
Sandy Toomer
Commercial, Instrument, A&P
EAA: 1023750
Based Lanett, AL (7A3)
Auburn, AL
WAR EAGLE!
Last edited by Junglepilot : 06-11-2009 at 09:07 PM.
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06-12-2009, 05:27 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
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Welcome, Sandy...
...Kindly check your PM's,
Regards,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga
It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132
Dues gladly paid!
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08-08-2009, 11:35 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: KANE, Hugo, Minnesota
Posts: 765
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UPDATE
I read through this post with a smile on my face as I thought of where I was when I wrote this. Just as the Chinese proverb says; "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step...the journey of 15,000 rivets begins with the same single step." I started by working towards my PPL.
I am about 4 weeks away from completing my PPL. It has been an exciting summer. I made sure to include my wife in some of my lessons when my instructor would allow it. The good news is...she is hooked on flying about as bad as I am. We are flying to Duluth on Moday with my instructor in his SR22 Turbo (introduce her to Cadillac style). She is really looking forward to that. She also gave me the green light on my build project. I really owe that to my AOPA mentor Tom Berge who is a tech counsellor and multiple offender. He has a beautiful RV-7A which he kindly demonstrated to my wife on multiple occasions. Because of those experiences she is really excited to have an RV. Tom has done a good job of prepping her for what to expect during the build project and she is on board for all of it. I think she may even be looking forward to bucking rivets.
I recently purchased all the tools I need for the shop. I need to build some tables, wire and soundproof the basement and I will be off and running! I also took my 3 year old to OSH this year and he got to meet Dick VanGrunsven. I said this is the man that designed the airplane we're going to build. Van said..."he is probably to young to comprehend that." Pretty typical!  He is a pretty humble guy.
Anyway I am excited to officially join the RV family. The guys in the MN wing are very open and helpful and I am sure I am going to lean on them a lot for support and assistance in the coming years. Not to mention everyone on this forum! I'll keep you all updated!
__________________
Aaron Arvig
RV-9A
Empennage Done
Wings-In Progress
N568AK Reserved
SOLD?but I'll be back
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08-09-2009, 01:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 34
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Start Building and see if you like it :)
You may start the tail and decide you don't want to build... or you may get hooked  My family is totally into it, so I feel fortunate to have the support.
As for financing, I just save what I can and take each step when I can. I chose the -7 over the -10 due to cost. $60,000 is a lot more within my current budget than $150,000. I have two young kids as well, but by the time the -7 is done, my son will have 4-5 years left until college. The plane is a vehicle for my wife and I, more so than family vacations. If I want to fly four, I will rent something from the local club. Once the kids are gone, we can use the -7 to travel and visit the kids. That's the plan.
Bottom line, you can build in spurts as financing allows. Don't endanger the family, but also don't squash your dreams 
__________________
___________________
Ralph Otto
San Diego, California
N2314P - soon...
"...one for Papa" (reserved)
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08-09-2009, 03:33 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 118
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Just Do It
My wife was diagnosed with terminal breast cancer 3 years ago and was given a year to live. She has survived 3 and is so far cancer free. She gave me the best advice the other day. I was discussing my desire to build an RV12 and get back into flying, I told her I thought it would take a few years to get going with money and all, she said "why wait, you might get hit by a bus tomorrow". Her situation reminded me that life is precious, if you wait forever to accomplish your dreams you will die a dreamer.
If you have a way to make it happen, do it, you have no idea what the next sunrise will bring and you never will, but hindsight is always 20/20.
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08-09-2009, 04:19 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Atl
Posts: 34
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Partnership
Join your local RV group, buy a share that fits into your $. You can sell your share if you need to. Learn about the RV's and the people around them. Building time belongs to your family at this stage in life. Good luck.
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