Emag/Pmag

[Bob Brown]

Darwin, I'm so glad to hear you're OK. I hope you were able to chase down the reason why you couldn't ground out the offending P-Mag. Mine can be disabled two different ways in flight if one of them messes the bed. As I said in my earlier posts, no manufacturer has an unspoilt record with electronic ignitions. It was YOUR FRIEND here in Independence (I won't mention names, but you know who he is) who was almost killed in an engine failure and subsequent off airport landing resulting from a dual simultaneous failure of brand new Lightspeeds. All of this is still in litigation. Although in this instance, the airframe was trashed, the FWF area was undamaged, allowing investigators an excellent opportunity to investigate the wiring, the installation and to replicate the failure of the system. There are a number (16, I believe) of other Lightspeed engine failure incidents also still in litigation with similar failure modes, I just met another guy on the ramp here yesterday who also has had multiple incidents with his Lightpseed on his (beautiful) RV-10. The fact that Barrett Engines recommends against installing Lightspeeds might give you some indication that all is not well too.

[ed. One paragraph here that questioned the intentions of the moderators removed here by Doug Reeves.]

Instead of posting a wiring diagram that would allow other people to insure they CAN ground out or disable their P-Mag, we're bashing the system and irresponsibly warning of death and destruction. That just ain't right. C'mon people, let's work a little harder at being objective and learn to play a little better with others, it'll make our community better in the long run.
I'll finish this post with this thought...though I run P-Mags and have had no problem with them (yes, I sent them in for the updates), I am not a "defender" of them, I am skeptical of them as I am skeptical of every system in my airplane on every flight I take it on. I assume every system will fail and I try to have a backup plan in place for when it does. I am only for fair and unbiased treatments of the other systems out there, which we're not seeing now.

[frankh]

Originally Posted by Tom Hunter

I finally have to add my .02 cents to this discussion. Gary Cotner is a freind of mine and had a beautiful airplane until it was destroyed after installing a replacement P Mag when the first one failed.

Another of my friends recently completed a Lancair Legacy. It had a BALANCED new IO-360 that had 5 hours of run time on the dyno at Lycon. It had new P Mags which he very much wanted to use. The prop is an MT.

He hired a test pilot to fly the plane. The test pilot refused to fly the plane with the P Mags when they twice failed on takeoff. The plane now has slicks and 40 hours of trouble free flight time.

While I have been tremendously impressed with the design of the E and P Mags, the fact remains that they have issues.

There are clearly other EI on the market with a longer track record and more hours of trouble free operation. You might just consider Klaus. And if you have read the article about Paul Lipps, he was a consultant on the design of that EI.



Tom Hunter

So Tom,

With great respect I have to point out there are a few details that are missing in your description. You said "recently completed Legacy"...What does that actually mean as far as the PMags go?...Were they updated with the latest magnet affixing mod or were they an earlier version.

What was the failure mode?..Was it the P mags themselves or as a result of faulty wiring.

While I agree Pmags "have" had significant issues I cannot get to your conclusion that "they have issues".. They may still be failing and that was the reason for the question at the start of the thread..I.e are they still having issues with the latest mods and if so what are the failure modes?

Do you have any further details on the Legacy's units?

Frank

[Captain Avgas]

Originally Posted by Bob Brown

There are a number (16, I believe) of other Lightspeed engine failure incidents also still in litigation with similar failure modes

This is a VERY serious allegation.....sixteen cases of Lightspeed ignition failures being the subject of current litigation (ie current legal process).

The onus is now on you to support this allegation by revealing the source of your information. If you are unable to produce any real evidence to support your statement you might like to reflect a bit more on another statement you made, that being: "C'mon people, let's work a little harder at being objective and learn to play a little better with others, it'll make our community better in the long run."

[N941WR]

Today I had the opportunity to speak with Darwin about his P-mag issue.

First, let me say, he is going to write up the incident but before everyone goes off on why the P-mags are so evil, allow me to let you in on why one of them lost its timing mark.

Darwin had not sent his P-mags in for the required software and magnet updates.

In mid 2007 Emag Air requested all their ignitions be returned for a required software update, which eliminated the lost timing mark issue. Since that time they have also come out with another required hardware update to their magnet retention system. Between the two solutions, the lost timing problems people have experienced has been eliminated.

If you have not sent your E/P-mags in for the update, do not fly until you have done so. Contact Emag Air for details.

[Bob Brown]

If you'll contact me offline, I have no problem giving you the name of the person I know who is involved in this situation, you can then resume your fact hunt with him, but it won't get very far, all he'll tell you after relating the details of his accident is to talk to his attorney. Surely you cannot be serious about "giving up" names of people involved in current litigation in a forum such as this. If it is your desire to document every failure of a Lightspeed ignition, I can help you start that list, but it will only be offline.

The point I have made repeatedly, and will stand by it, is that there is no such thing as a failure proof ignition, you can include magnetos on that list as well.

And Doug, I did not mean to insinuate the censors were biased, I don't think they are.
[ed. No harm no foul, Bob. I must have interpreted the earlier post incorrectly. My apologies. dr]

[N55CU]

No problems here! 180 hrs on (2) P-Mags with no issues! Would make the same choice on RV #2 If or when I build again!
Randy Utsey
N55CU / RV-7
Charlotte, N.C.

[szicree]

Originally Posted by Bob Brown

There are a number (16, I believe) of other Lightspeed engine failure incidents also still in litigation with similar failure modes, I just met another guy on the ramp here yesterday who also has had multiple incidents with his Lightpseed on his (beautiful) RV-10. The fact that Barrett Engines recommends against installing Lightspeeds might give you some indication that all is not well too.

Are you willing to describe what the proposed cause of the failure is so that others might prevent it, or would that simply cut into the lawyers list of potential meal tickets?

[Bob Brown]

Steve, if I knew more about the exact causes of the failures or problems, I'd certainly share, I'm not trying to hide anything, I just don't have the facts insofar as what the failure modes are in these instances. I don't know if it's the way they were installed, wired, fused or designed...I only know people firsthand who have had engine stoppage, including downed aircraft. I furnished the info I do have (offline) to Bob Barrow. I'm not badmouthing Lightspeed, as someone said yesterday to me, when its running, the engine is "smooth like glass"...but like all these electrogizmoids, when they stop working, bad things can happen. I'm certainly not trying to protect the meal tickets of lawyers, those who know me know how I feel about having more than say three lawyers on earth...

[osxuser]

Before we get all caught up in documenting all the failures of every ignition system known to aviation... maybe we could consider that one mag and one EI might be the reasonable solution...? Mags have a known life span, and have almost none of the same failure modes as the EI of your choice. Dual EI just seems to me to be asking for it, I've always felt this way.

[Ron Lee]

I saw the problems associated with the blow tube method. Would I be correct in saying that anyone who has not sent their older units in for the prescribed fixes should at least set the timing using the manual (may not be the right term) method and NOT the blow tube method?