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  #21  
Old 01-21-2009, 12:34 AM
Rainier Lamers Rainier Lamers is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somerset West
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akschu View Post
MEMS gyros can act pretty funky
schu
Not ours.

Ours are mounted in a tiny enclosure of their own, have wide range temperature compensation (this knows the temperature related errors and fixes them) in addition to a built in heater that ensures that the system always operates at a good temperature. So, in a nutshell, as you switch on the system in the middle of winter it uses the temperature compensation to get rid of errors and starts heating itself to a good temperature (which goes real quick due to the small size) and after that the temperature compensation hardly has any work to do.
For this reason temperature is not a worry factor in our lives.
The only issue (which is easily resolved normally) that affects the low cost gyros used by others and ourselves is vibration - too much of that and things don't look that rosy. Keep vibrations and airframe shocks at a reasonable limit and the systems work great. Our AHRS are now very popular for gliders and are used as OEM parts in other manufacturers systems. In gliders it is typically possible to fly five minutes of back-to-back aerobatics (i.e. no time for the AHRS to "find itself") without any noticable deviation of the horizon image from reality. Considering that this is an unaided AHRS makes this even more remarkable.
The above is for our SP-4 product.
Our SP-5 product uses BAe Systems developed gyros that are nearly immune to vibration - but at a cost (these are the same gyros used in something like a Crossbow AHRS-500).

Regarding IFR, in particular the Garmin 430.
Similar to one other EFIS maker, we are currently test flying full integration of the 430 into our Odyssey and Voyager via ARINC. This involved a lot of reverse engineering due to nearly complete lack of help from Garmin (Garmin does a couple of strange things with their labels).
Anyway, as it stands, the integration is full and involves VOR, ILS, glideslope, GPS flightplan navigation including use of the current 430 flightplan natively in our systems (including our live flightplan view). You can fly coupled approaches without even touching the Odyssey or Voyager.
If all goes well, this is going to be released as software update end of this week.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
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  #22  
Old 01-21-2009, 09:06 AM
DGlaeser DGlaeser is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 879
Default I installed my 300XL

Quote:
Originally Posted by akschu View Post
What is the deal with the garmin GNC 300XL it seems like I can't buy one of those unless I pay someone to install it. Also, what do they mean by "TSO-certified for non-precision approaches"? Basically what does a 430 buy me that a 300xl doesn't except for the better screen and nav radio? Like I said, I'm IFR ignorant. I've only been flying for 2 years.
I got my 300XL from John Stark. He had to do the wiring harness, but I installed it myself.
I did my whole IFR panel with autopilot for about 12K. I use the GRT Sport for the CDI, and the AK950L for the annunciators/switches required (see below).
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Dennis Glaeser CFII
Rochester Hills, MI
RV-7A - Eggenfellner H6, GRT Sport ES, EIS4000, 300XL, SL30, TT Gemini, PMA6000, AK950L, GT320,
uAvionixEcho ADSB in/out with GRT Safe Fly GPS
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  #23  
Old 01-21-2009, 09:44 AM
jmbaute jmbaute is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akschu View Post
What is the deal with the garmin GNC 300XL it seems like I can't buy one of those unless I pay someone to install it. Also, what do they mean by "TSO-certified for non-precision approaches"? Basically what does a 430 buy me that a 300xl doesn't except for the better screen and nav radio? Like I said, I'm IFR ignorant. I've only been flying for 2 years.
The 300 XL is a very capable IFR GPS, just not as new and sexy as the 430. I'm not sure, though, that it wouldn't be cheaper to install a 430 vs the 300XL + nav/com. Pros & cons both ways.

A non precision approach means no vertical guidance - a glipeslope, like an ILS or a WAAS GPS approach gives you.
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John B
Mooney M20C (KPSK)
RV7 Wings

www.pdfplates.com
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  #24  
Old 01-21-2009, 09:51 AM
apatti apatti is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 654
Default

Can an IFR GPS substitue for a DME on approaches that require DME?

Thanks,
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Tony
RV8A
N97AP
Warner Robins, GA
Phase I complete
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  #25  
Old 01-21-2009, 10:11 AM
Garage Guy's Avatar
Garage Guy Garage Guy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 457
Default As of 1999, the AOPA thinks so

Quote:
Originally Posted by apatti View Post
Can an IFR GPS substitue for a DME on approaches that require DME?
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsite...991213gps.html
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  #26  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:07 AM
akschu's Avatar
akschu akschu is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Houston, Alaska
Posts: 292
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I'm not sure what that means, but I think it means that I don't need an SL30 and that I can get away with just the 430W.

So what is cheaper or more functional:

SL30 + 300XL

or

430W
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  #27  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:14 AM
SteinAir SteinAir is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473
Default

As far as "cheaper", the SL3- + 300XL...as far as "more functional" the 430W is by far and away the choice to make. The difference is in the hundreds of $$'s, and the functionality from the 430W gives you much, much more all the way around over the SL-30 package.

Plus, the 430W will couple directly to a good mid-range TruTrak for approaches, etc.. if you have an EFIS failure. Not something you can do with the SL-30 unless you buy the high end Autopilot. All things considered, a 430W, a Digiflight IIVSGV and a good EFIS will give you the most overall IFR bang for your buck along with good reliability that will give you some sort of "backup" in case the EFIS gets ill. Don't get caught up in individual systems or mfgrs, because it's the entire package/installation that you need to keep in mind. Both from a form and more importantly function standpoint.

My 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein
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  #28  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:33 AM
akschu's Avatar
akschu akschu is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Houston, Alaska
Posts: 292
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Do I need the SL30 if I get the 430w? It is my understanding that I loose the DME functionality, but then again I'm not entirely sure what DME and ADF is since I don't have those things in my airplane and haven't done any IFR training.
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  #29  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:47 AM
JHines JHines is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akschu View Post
Do I need the SL30 if I get the 430w? It is my understanding that I loose the DME functionality, but then again I'm not entirely sure what DME and ADF is since I don't have those things in my airplane and haven't done any IFR training.
DME is Distance Measuring Equipment. A receiver in the aircraft calculates slant-range distance to a fixed ground transmitter (often co-located with a VOR station). Usually the receiver is capable of displaying ground speed and time-to-station, as well.

ADF is Automatic Direction Finder. A simple receiver that shows your relative bearing to the station it is tuned to (usually an NDB).

Both of these systems are obsolescent technically, but they are still heavily used to create approach procedures. For example, in many ILS approaches, to fly the complete approach you will need an ADF receiver.

An IFR GPS receiver can be used to substitute for both ADF and DME. The GPS database simply contains the latitude and longitude of the ground station. The ADF or DME location can then be used as a point to navigate to in the GPS. So one piece of modern hardware can substitute for 2 others.

You don't need an SL30 if you get a 430. Many folks use the 430 as the primary nav/com radio and then get an SL30 as a second.
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Charlotte, NC
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2009, 12:29 PM
Don Jones's Avatar
Don Jones Don Jones is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Snohomish, Washington
Posts: 699
Default You might be doing it....

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrykohler View Post
Breister:
One last note: You will NOT be legal to navigate point to point in IFR using the 296. The SL 30 (or MGL, if it qualifies) will only allow you to fly airways, etc.

Not true. My 9A is equipped with an SL40, Val VOR/LOC, and a garmin 196. It is, what Paul refers to as, "IFR Lite". In today's environment, there are very few places where you can't navigate direct. When I file, I list "VFR GPS on board" in the remarks section. In nearly every case, before I reach my initial cruise altitude, ATC tells me "proceed direct". While so navigating, I continually pick out VORs in front of or behind me. This way, if I lose GPS signal, I can request amended clearance. If I lose the Val, the scenario becomes a little more complex, depending upon weather. The important thing is not to hesitate to advise ATC of the situation.
Terry, CFI
RV9A, N323TP
....but, it is NOT legal to accept a clearance that you don't have the required IFR certified equipment on board to fly that clearance. A hand held "VFR GPS" may only be used in the IFR environment as an aid to situational awareness. ATC will allow you to go direct via your "VFR GPS" cause it isn't their ticket on the line!

Sorry for the thread drift
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Don Jones
Technical Support Manager
Dynon Avionics
CFI-IA, AGI, IGI
RV9-A

Last edited by Don Jones : 01-21-2009 at 12:32 PM.
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