VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > RV General Discussion/News
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-13-2008, 01:47 PM
VETE76 VETE76 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: syracuse ny/venice fl
Posts: 623
Default do not use silicone

a gentleman was showing some building tips on an rv. he showed where to use silicone before painting! DON"T!! paint will not stick! anywhere close to where u put the silicone!
here's my answer to him:
have you tried to paint this area yet? nothing will stick where silicone has been applied. paint will not also stick within inches of this silicone. i own a manufacturing plant and we siliconed a lot of units then sent to paint booth. horrors!!!! we had to strip all the silicone and every place the **** vapors touched or settled on. good luck

fred

silicone is for after your all done. and never want to paint again.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-14-2008, 01:36 PM
Pilottonny Pilottonny is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 645
Exclamation Silicone is "unremovable" from surfaces to be painted!

We do a lot of work in the Automotive industry. Every enquiry/specification/order/contract we get, says that if you bring anything that has silicone in it, into thier factory, you will be sued! If anything silicone gets on the bare skin of the car, they will never be able to paint it again and they will have to scrap the body. The silicone causes blisters that can not be removed or painted over, it will just come back, again and again.

Can you emagine what disaster it would be if silicone gets inside the paint lines that run from the paint mix room to the paint booths, when they are installed? That is why, when we work in the paint shop, we sometimes have to submit samples of products we use (even from the hand soap, that we use after work), so they can test it for silicones!

Silicone should be kept miles away from anything that needs to be painted!

I don not even keep closed cartridges in my shop!

Regards, Tonny.
__________________
"Pilottonny"
Tonny Tromp
Lanaken, Belgium (EU)
RV9A, Registration: PH-VAN
ECI-Titan IOX-320 with dual EI, turning a Whirlwind 200RV CS prop.
Sold
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-14-2008, 05:38 PM
robert ruggles robert ruggles is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 74
Default WOOPS!

Thanks for this eye opening info.
guess I will be polishing my plane
Robert Ruggles
Surprise AZ
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-16-2008, 10:28 AM
rv7boy's Avatar
rv7boy rv7boy is offline
Forum Peruser
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,458
Default Silicone and my Rudder Trailing Edge

When I stopped working on my rudder a while back (too long!) I wasn't happy with the trailing edge (RV-7). It had a wave about a third of the way from the bottom. I was looking at my trailing edge the other night and made the big decision. Yes I drilled all the rivets out, ordered a new trailing edge wedge and plan to re-do the trailing edge. Wish me luck because the rest of the rudder is just beautiful!

I was really surprised that the pro-seal did not bond the skin and wedge in some places. Some of the "un-bonds" were as much as one inch long. I am convinced that I used rags/cloths that had been in the clothes dryer with the "fabric softener" tissues that my wife sometimes uses. I've read that they contain silicone.

Boy, do I feel like a dummy! My job for many years was to oversee safety and quality assurance requirements on the Shuttle Program solid rocket motors. Silicone is such an issue in the solid rocket motor manufacturing plant that it is FORBIDDEN on plant property, much like what Pilottonny described in the previous post.

Of course, if my theory is correct, I have silicone contamination on the inner surfaces of the skins which would still cause bonding problems.

I'll have to do my homework on how to attempt removing the silicone. Any suggestions, anyone? [Update: I just read Tony's title saying silicone is "unremoveable" from surfaces. If my theory is correct, I may have to build a new rudder. I'll have to find some way to make a straighter trailing edge. Oh, what fun!]

Silicone has a purpose...lubricating moving parts. But it is bad stuff around things that need to be bonded...like paint and adhesives.

Don
__________________
Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/ADS-B In and Out...and I like it!

?Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard

Last edited by rv7boy : 10-16-2008 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Added bracketed note.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-16-2008, 10:58 AM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,145
Default

Timely advice - thank you. My wife "borrowed" a couple of my shop rags the other day and helpfully washed them for me when she was done - and she likes to use those dryer sheets with traces of silicone on them. I will present her with a permanent gift of those shop rags, they are now banished from my shop. I've been in the habit for a long time of using paper towels when doing final cleaning for priming, I guess I'll have to use them for ALL metal cleaning now, or use new unwashed shop rags.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-16-2008, 11:24 AM
rv7boy's Avatar
rv7boy rv7boy is offline
Forum Peruser
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,458
Default

Remember my idea is only one theory of what may have caused my problem. One thing is for sure...the pro-seal didn't bond properly in several places. What bothers me about my theory is that this situation is not widespread (which is good ) ...there are many rudders being built with straight edges. So I do have doubts about my theory.

As someone says on the morning radio show..."Press on, People!"

Don

P.S. Don't confuse "silicone" with "silicon." One is an element; the other is a compound. The words are often misspelled.
__________________
Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/ADS-B In and Out...and I like it!

?Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard

Last edited by rv7boy : 10-16-2008 at 11:34 AM. Reason: Added P.S.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-16-2008, 11:41 AM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv7boy View Post
Remember my idea is only one theory of what may have caused my problem.
True - but the cost of avoiding this possible problem for me is the cost of a handfull of shop rags - and maybe a case of paper towels over the building life of the airplane as a substitute. Cheap enough.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-16-2008, 11:43 AM
dhammer's Avatar
dhammer dhammer is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 151
Default Silicone

Something to keep in mind -

The composition of most all automotive waxes are proprietary, but what I found out when researching for some glider work, virtually all contain some. Silicones on the surface are not the end of the world.

Here are some comments from Meguiars -
http://www.meguiars.com/faq/index.cf...19&section=_19

Her is a link for a remover -
http://www.topoftheline.com/silicone-wax-remover.html

Don
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-16-2008, 11:26 PM
Pirkka Pirkka is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe, Finland (EFTU)
Posts: 542
Default

Just in case I would be sure not to use silicon based lubricants either....
__________________
Pirkka

- RV-7 -
Tail: Waiting for fiberglass.
Wings: Some priming left, then lot of riveting.
QB Fuse + Finishing kit: in crates.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-22-2008, 06:59 PM
rv7boy's Avatar
rv7boy rv7boy is offline
Forum Peruser
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,458
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirkka View Post
Just in case I would be sure not to use silicon based lubricants either....
I think you mean "silicone" based lubricants.

Like I said, don't confuse "silicon" with "silicone." "Silicon" is the element from which many useful products are made. Some of them are called silicones; others are not. Not all silicon based compounds are called silicones. Notice the Wikipedia links in the previous posts in this thread.

Just add an "e" and you get one of those products; "silicone" is the generic name for a family of compounds that are made from silicon.

Please remember how to spell the slippery one...it has the "eeeeeeeeeeeeee" on the end! "Eeeeeeeeeeee" is probably the sound we would make if we were to slip and fall, much like the story about the banana peel. It's also one of the sounds we make when we try to rebuild the rudder trailing edge which is how I got involved in this thread.

P.S. An example of one of our "friendly" silicon compounds is Silicon Carbide...the gritty stuff on sandpaper. It's not slippery.
__________________
Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/ADS-B In and Out...and I like it!

?Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard

Last edited by rv7boy : 10-22-2008 at 09:07 PM. Reason: added P.S.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:11 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.