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  #21  
Old 09-18-2008, 11:16 AM
thallock thallock is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 333
Default Alternative to keyed electrical systems.

I'm surprised that Vertical Power has not jumped in here. Their system does not need a key to secure the starter switch. Instead, you have to enter a 3 or 4 digit code to enable the starter button.

Tracy.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2008, 11:28 AM
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morlino morlino is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Inman, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmartinez443 View Post
In fact, the way he wires the starter circuit is with two off-on-(on) toggles: when you toggle both mag switches to the (on) position, the starter contactor is engaged.
A friend of mine has this setup in his RV6 and I don't understand why it isn't more popular. I was sold on the idea the first time I saw it, actually I felt kind of stupid for not thinking of it.

In my opinion the traditional off-left-right-both-start switch that is in most airplanes offers no real security and leaves a lot to be desired in terms of convenience and longevity.

There is something inherently cool about starter buttons though.
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  #23  
Old 09-18-2008, 11:31 AM
gasman gasman is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmartinez443 View Post
I will be doing the same in my 8A. I will rig the starter button in such a way that it only gets power if three conditions apply: the master is on, the impulse mag is on (grounded), and the second mag or EI is off.

Anyone who thinks that a key switch will prevent a motivated thief from taking their plane is fooling themselves. I also read in the aerolectric connection (no first hand knowlege of this) that the four-way (off-left-right-start) starter switches fail all the time and that is why Knuckolls discourages their use. In fact, the way he wires the starter circuit is with two off-on-(on) toggles: when you toggle both mag switches to the (on) position, the starter contactor is engaged.
The impulse mag is off when it is grounded.

You never want the non impulse mag to be hot when you engage the starter. In fact, it should be wired to not allow the starter button to engage without the advanced mag grounded.
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  #24  
Old 09-18-2008, 11:32 AM
robpar robpar is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver British Columbia
Posts: 85
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The rules for my Drag Race car that I also drove on the street at the time required a battery switch. I found this to be an excellent safety and anti theft device. Although out where it could be seen thieves are not looking for a battery switch and the engine can not be started.

Any computers or nav equipment that must have some power for memory can be wired to the battery side of the switch.

From a safety stand point the engine can not be started unless the battery is turned on, the ignition on etc. If you are outside the plane and people are around, turn off the battery such as at shows then bungling hands can not start the engine or whack you with the prop. Also if an electrical problem occurs than the entire system can be shut down easily. In automobiles even if fuel is involved in a fire the statistics I read said that over 90 % of the fires were started by the battery.

Nothing can be made "Fool Proof" I have been told because Fools are far too inventive but we can make it more difficult for them.

The marine type switch is probably too large and heavy for aircraft but there are smaller ones that would do the trick.

Bob Parry
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  #25  
Old 09-18-2008, 11:38 AM
Pilottonny Pilottonny is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 645
Default Push button with interlocking key-switch!

Because the Key switch I am using, only has three positions (OFF / AUX / AUX+MAIN), I installed a push button for starting as well (probably only 2 to 3 amps rating, but it manages to "click" the starter solenoid). I have wired it in series with one of my 9 master-key-switch contacts, in such a way that it will only work if the key is in the AUX + MAIN position. That way I am also sure that I am not going to accidently start the engine on the AUX-battery (only 4 A/hr !). I am going to install a diode though, to hopefully help the push button and master contact, to live longer.

Regards, Tonny.
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  #26  
Old 09-18-2008, 12:11 PM
allbee allbee is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: spokane, wa
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I learned a long time ago to keep people out of my plane, so a lock will be on my latch for the tip up, simple, drill a hole and insert lock. I don't want anybody in my plane, yup, I know, the lock will not keep out people that are desperate, they can break the canopy to get in. I want to keep the honest people out... honest. Never fails, if there is an open door, in people go. So if it's locked, even with the cheapest lock, people stay out, that's good. The last time I left a door open on my airplane, every switch was on and all controls messed with, no thanks. Oh and I have a push button start switch, very cool. Oh one last thing that helps a bunch, a cover over the canopy, what people can't see... well I think you know what I mean. If I'm sitting around the airplane, off comes the cover, they can look all they want, just don't touch.
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  #27  
Old 09-18-2008, 12:24 PM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allbee View Post
I learned a long time ago to keep people out of my plane, so a lock will be on my latch for the tip up, simple, drill a hole and insert lock. I don't want anybody in my plane, yup, I know, the lock will not keep out people that are desperate, they can break the canopy to get in. I want to keep the honest people out... honest. Never fails, if there is an open door, in people go. So if it's locked, even with the cheapest lock, people stay out, that's good. The last time I left a door open on my airplane, every switch was on and all controls messed with, no thanks. Oh and I have a push button start switch, very cool. Oh one last thing that helps a bunch, a cover over the canopy, what people can't see... well I think you know what I mean. If I'm sitting around the airplane, off comes the cover, they can look all they want, just don't touch.
Along this line, if leaving the plane at an air show I lock the canopy with a very wimpy little combination lock. The thing is so flimsy it could be cut with a good set of wire cutters, but it tells honest folks I don't want them messing with the plane.

Why not use a more substantial lock? If someone is determined to get in the plane, pleeeeze cut the lock instead of busting that expensive canopy!

Another feature I like about my pushbutton starter setup is the "starter light" that glows when the contactor is hot on the starter side. A stuck starter contactor can really pull down a battery in a hurry, so the light is checked following a start to make sure it isn't still on.
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Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 09-18-2008 at 12:28 PM.
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  #28  
Old 09-18-2008, 01:06 PM
vonjet vonjet is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 183
Default Turborevs starter

This is the one I ordered. Its stainless steel so it should look slick.

http://turborevs.org.uk/Engine%20Pus...t%20Button.htm
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  #29  
Old 09-18-2008, 01:14 PM
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Bubblehead Bubblehead is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Keller, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1flyer View Post
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the old C-150 I learned to fly in have a T-handle starter? Still had a key switch for the mags but I think I remember having to pull the handle to engage. Isn't that the same except you pull rather than push.
The 150 I had used a regular L-R-Both-Start switch, but my 1950 C-170A had a big old knob in the center of the panel that engaged the starter of the Continental O-300.

PITA!

My -8 has the key but I'll switch to Aerolectric's switch setup if I ever rewire the panel.
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  #30  
Old 09-18-2008, 01:26 PM
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Geico266 Geico266 is offline
 
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Location: Huskerland, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S View Post
Larry, go read the link.

Key is required.
If you read my post I said an ignition system with no key is dangerous.
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Last edited by Geico266 : 09-18-2008 at 01:30 PM.
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