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09-18-2008, 09:00 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Huskerland, USA
Posts: 5,862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
I have seen MANY aircraft ignition switches that were worn enough that the key would come out with the switch in the "left" position. I had a friend whose Swift started with a small turn of the prop. The airplane had been sitting for days and the mixture was at ICO.
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Well, I learned a long time ago never argue with Mel, but I guess we can choose to disagree on this one. If the ignition switch was faulty it should have been replaced. The push button system with no key is dangerous IMHO.
__________________
RV-7 : In the hangar
RV-10 : In the hangar
RV-12 : Built and sold
RV-44 : 4 place helicopter on order.
Last edited by Geico266 : 09-18-2008 at 09:18 AM.
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09-18-2008, 09:13 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 879
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I've got a Honda switch also
Quote:
Originally Posted by N520TX
My Honda S-2000 has a starter button - when I test drove it yrs back I thought it was the coolest thing. When I started work on my 7a back in 2003, I just knew it had to have one as well. I managed to locate a genuine honda starter button ( http://www.handa-accessories.com/s2000-03.html near the bottom of the page) and sure enough, it's in my 7a. It's not rated to carry the starter current itself, so a relay was required.

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I have the Honda Start button in my plane. It activates a relay which activates the starter solenoid. It works great, and looks great. I've gotten lots of comments about how cool it looks, and no one has ever asked "What does that button do" 
__________________
Dennis Glaeser CFII
Rochester Hills, MI
RV-7A - Eggenfellner H6, GRT Sport ES, EIS4000, 300XL, SL30, TT Gemini, PMA6000, AK950L, GT320,
uAvionixEcho ADSB in/out with GRT Safe Fly GPS
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09-18-2008, 09:21 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 333
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Quote:
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Story Time: I am reminded of SnF a few years ago where a customer was sitting in a light sport display plane and said; "What does this button do"? The Rotax 912S engine started full throttle, plane shot across a busy area, hit a ditch, went airborne, and then crashed into 3 cars. Push button stater? NOT a good idea in an airplane.
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The moral I get from this story it that you have to do some screening of the people you let in your airplane 
__________________
Hugh
Northern California
RV-7 Flying
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09-18-2008, 09:22 AM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geico266
Well, I learned a long time ago never argue with Mel, but I guess we can choose to disagree on this one. If the ignition switch was faulty it should have been replaced. The push button system with no key is dangerous IMHO.
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Larry, go read the link.
Key is required.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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09-18-2008, 09:28 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winter Springs, FL
Posts: 249
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I will be doing the same in my 8A. I will rig the starter button in such a way that it only gets power if three conditions apply: the master is on, the impulse mag is on , and the second mag or EI is off.
Anyone who thinks that a key switch will prevent a motivated thief from taking their plane is fooling themselves. I also read in the aerolectric connection (no first hand knowlege of this) that the four-way (off-left-right-start) starter switches fail all the time and that is why Knuckolls discourages their use. In fact, the way he wires the starter circuit is with two off-on-(on) toggles: when you toggle both mag switches to the (on) position, the starter contactor is engaged.
__________________
Jorge Martinez
QB 8A Fuse. Just battled the ^%&@ing gear weldments. Now I can move on.
http://www.rv8alog.com
Last edited by jmartinez443 : 09-18-2008 at 11:11 AM.
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09-18-2008, 09:32 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S
Larry, go read the link.
Key is required.
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That is when wired as recommended to a car. The switch is wired as an alternative to the start position of the key switch, but the vehicle's ignition must be on before pushing the button...
__________________
Dennis Glaeser CFII
Rochester Hills, MI
RV-7A - Eggenfellner H6, GRT Sport ES, EIS4000, 300XL, SL30, TT Gemini, PMA6000, AK950L, GT320,
uAvionixEcho ADSB in/out with GRT Safe Fly GPS
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09-18-2008, 09:37 AM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGlaeser
That is when wired as recommended to a car. The switch is wired as an alternative to the start position of the key switch, but the vehicle's ignition must be on before pushing the button...
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O.K., I'll take your word for it.
Statement in the ad can be interpreted a couple of ways 
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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09-18-2008, 10:37 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sutter Creek, CA
Posts: 842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geico266
I have flown planes with push buttons and from a safety stand point they are not a good idea. There is no key to lock the aircraft's ignition. Anyone can get it the plane turn on the master and push the button.
Story Time: I am reminded of SnF a few years ago where a customer was sitting in a light sport display plane and said; "What does this button do"? The Rotax 912S engine started full throttle, plane shot across a busy area, hit a ditch, went airborne, and then crashed into 3 cars.  Push button stater? NOT a good idea in an airplane.
Go with the key lock. When the key is on dash or in your pocket the plane cannot be started.
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This switch only controls starter engagement, not the ignition circuits. If this is what you were intending to say, I agree with you completely. The ignition is, or should be still key locked, which would preclude the engine starting.
I have flown four different Rans LSA aircraft (all with Rotax 912 powerplants), and none of them had push button or toggle switch starters. There must have been some serious inattention by the owner/pilot as getting it started would require activation of four switches; Master, left and right ignition coils, and then the starter.
My PA-20 has a monentary toggle switched starter with keyed mag switch, and I have encountered no problems in the 8 years that I have owned it. However, as Larry pointed out, it could be possible for an airshow knucklehead to turn on the master and engage the starter. Therefore when I am away from the plane for long periods of time, I simply wrap a ty-rap around the back of the master switch and up front around the toggle. I have had a few morons decide to test my strobes, and check the operations of my digital guages!
There is one distinct advantage to some of these lighted push button switches, and that is they can be wired to illuminate only when the starter is energized. This provides a measure of safety in being able to ensure that the starter selonoid has opened after start.
__________________
Mark Ohlau
RV-6 N506MM VAF #1410
2017 Donation Made
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09-18-2008, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 3,821
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MEL IS CORRECT!
Piper had an a.d. on their key switch way after I had the problem. Check an old in service switch, when you turn the key to off, if you can continue to turn the key past off by a hair, it will heat the mag back up and the key will pull right out.
Another problem with the key switch is engine kick back. When the key is in start position cranking the starter, it is also shorting the advanced mag. With a good fast starter spinning the motor, and it does not fire, and you let off of the start position, the key now heats the advanced mag......... and if the cyl is ready to fire, YOU WILL GET KICKBACK.
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09-18-2008, 11:14 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 135
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the old C-150 I learned to fly in have a T-handle starter? Still had a key switch for the mags but I think I remember having to pull the handle to engage. Isn't that the same except you pull rather than push.
__________________
Bill McAllister
St. Louis, MO
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