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  #31  
Old 08-27-2008, 04:48 PM
Mike Ice Mike Ice is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sedro Wooley, WA
Posts: 147
Default grounding the pmags

Don't worry about hijacking this thread. Let it take on a life of it's own.

I used the braided strap to ground the engine to the firewall and vacuum pad bolt. Another ground strap seems like a good idea.

I finally flew off the 40 hours and was able to bring the 9 back to Anchorage last night. Now I can work on it in the evenings instead of just the weekends.

First order of business is ground the mags to the engine then find and stop that pesky little oil leak.

Mike Ice
RV-9 40.5 hours
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  #32  
Old 09-01-2008, 04:21 PM
Mike Ice Mike Ice is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sedro Wooley, WA
Posts: 147
Default another mystery with a p-mag

Hello,

The mags were doing just great until this morning when I was doing a run up. I switched off the p lead to the p mag and the tach dropped about 20 rpms, I turned it back on. I then turned off the p lead to the emag and the engine died, dead as Heck, right there in the run up area at the end of 34 at Merrill Field. Luckily there was no one around and I wasn't holding up traffic so I did a restart and tried the mag check again and they worked just fine and continued to do so the rest of today.

I love these things (mags) and I want them to work, I really do, but right now they scare me a little. The engine makes great power and the starts are stellar but these little mystery occurrences are really bugging me.

So, I really think it is time for me to order a set of slick mags and give up on these e/p mags. It may just be me and my wiring but my confidence level is pretty low.

Anyone want to buy a slightly used e/p mag?

Mike Ice
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  #33  
Old 09-01-2008, 04:52 PM
scard's Avatar
scard scard is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 3,156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Ice View Post
Hello,

The mags were doing just great until this morning when I was doing a run up. I switched off the p lead to the p mag and the tach dropped about 20 rpms, I turned it back on. I then turned off the p lead to the emag and the engine died, dead as Heck, right there in the run up area at the end of 34 at Merrill Field. Luckily there was no one around and I wasn't holding up traffic so I did a restart and tried the mag check again and they worked just fine and continued to do so the rest of today.

I love these things (mags) and I want them to work, I really do, but right now they scare me a little. The engine makes great power and the starts are stellar but these little mystery occurrences are really bugging me.

So, I really think it is time for me to order a set of slick mags and give up on these e/p mags. It may just be me and my wiring but my confidence level is pretty low.

Anyone want to buy a slightly used e/p mag?

Mike Ice
There should be an "emotional support group". Don't for a minute think it is just you or your wiring. I've been there and done the same dance on the runup pad with pmags. You're story is nearly the same as mine was. I survived it. I hope you do too. You're story is way to perfectly familiar. Thanks for having the courage to tell it.
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Scott Card
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CMW E-Lift
RV-9A N4822C flying 2200+hrs. / Cedar Park, TX
RV8 Building - fuselage / showplanes canopy (Done!)
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  #34  
Old 09-01-2008, 05:18 PM
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RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,904
Default What RPM

Mike,

The Emag is power dependent. If you killed the power to it, with the Pmag off, the engine is going to die. The Pmag will have self power above a certain RPM. You need to know what that RPM is.

I don't kill the power do them with the breaker. I simply do a L/R/Both mag check and go.
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  #35  
Old 09-01-2008, 05:45 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default

Mike,

This is very odd. Electronics either work or they don't, usually there is no in between.

As someone else mentioned, the RPM of your check might suspect.

The other thought is to verify the connector and the wires going to it. Is it possible you have a loose wire?

Early on I had tinned the wires to both of my P-mags. The wires on one P-mag broke from the vibration. These wires were stripped back, the solder section cut off and just bare wires inserted in the connector. The right P-mag continues to run with the tinned wires. I'm waiting for them to show some sign of a problem but with a 190 hours on the plane, none have cropped up.

BTW, I'm still running Bob's Z-33 setup, even though the E-mag Air guys recommend against it. This allows me to do a full functionality check every flight, not just once a month.
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
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  #36  
Old 09-01-2008, 06:13 PM
Mike Ice Mike Ice is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sedro Wooley, WA
Posts: 147
Default p mag work

Scott,

Hear you! I know you have been there done that. For some reason I still like the little beasts. I would like to continue this on a personal level. Do you mind if I email you directly?

RV7 guy,

The p mag had both the power and the p lead switches in the on and run position. The engine RPM's were about 1300. I did cut the power to the p mag once ( a while ago, not today) and reduced power until it shut the engine off (approx 800 rpms). But this time I did not shut the power off. I have been very precise with turning on the power and then the p leads to the mags.

Never the less thanks for the ideas. I am plum out of them.

Bill,

I agree with you concerning electronics and how they work. Why am I having this problem? I have checked the wiring numerous times and found no problems, I have the mags wired exactly like the emagair folks suggest.

Lately I have been so apprehensive about doing a mag check that I have been skipping it. (I can hear the tisk tisks) What I have been doing is just pulling up and doing a full power run up and if it all feels good then just going. But today I decided to try a run up and WHAM.

I am going to order a set of slicks this week.

Again, I am not trying to show any disrespect to e/p mags. The problem might truely be me or the close proximety to the HARP project.

Mike Ice
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  #37  
Old 09-01-2008, 07:25 PM
Mitch757 Mitch757 is online now
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, MA
Posts: 355
Default Dead P-mag on mag check

Hi Mike,

I experienced the same thing...running fine, then the next mag check and it's dead. Shut down and restarted and everything worked fine. I called Brad and he knew immediately the problem....something about the voltage drop during starter engagement that reaches a certain value and the P/E mag senses (falsely) a failure and shuts down.

I sent the P mags in and they did a firmware update and problem is gone.

Mitch Garner

RV-4 flying
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  #38  
Old 09-02-2008, 07:25 AM
Mike Ice Mike Ice is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sedro Wooley, WA
Posts: 147
Default fragile p mags

Mitch,

Thanks for the information.

I suspect it is something like that for my problem as well. Some tiny little insignificant little blip, burp, glitch, whatever. Something that causes the software to hic-cup. Not a big deal usually but where I fly and want to fly it doesn't give me a sense of well being.

There is is a place I have wanted to travel to for some time now it is Middleton Island, you can Google it. It is 60 miles out in the Gulf of Alaska, that is 60 miles of flying over the North Pacific and feeling warm and fuzzy about your airplane is very important.

I have sent the mags back twice now and each time costs $100 (shipping) or more and the down time as well.

Thanks once again for the update.

Mike Ice

Last edited by Mike Ice : 09-02-2008 at 07:27 AM. Reason: add one word
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  #39  
Old 09-14-2008, 06:47 PM
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lostpilot28 lostpilot28 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boise, ID
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVadmirer View Post
They are great if you have no problems and miserable when you do!
I'm not sure this is an accurate statement...seems there are relatively few problems with these units anymore. Of the few I've heard of, most were fixed with firmware updates and only a handful had significant ongoing problems. In the case of the gentleman in the 3-part-post, it seems as if he had a significant vibration problem that led to his continual failure.

The others (in the small group of ongoing failures) could have had lemons, or there may have been something wrong with their installation or platform (excessive vibration, heat, etc).

That said, I think it's good that Emagair is addressing the sensor problem with the latest SB. At least it shows they're being proactive. I'm not an engineer so I can't say if it's a bad design or redesign, but I know plenty of engineers who disagree on how things are designed, so there's probably no single right way to do it.

For the record, I have 2 P-mags in my RV that hasn't yet flown...I'm cautiously optimistic and excited about using them. So far, the company has been very helpful and supportive with their product, which says a lot to me.
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  #40  
Old 09-14-2008, 07:26 PM
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scard scard is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 3,156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostpilot28 View Post
I'm not sure this is an accurate statement...seems there are relatively few problems with these units anymore. Of the few I've heard of, most were fixed with firmware updates and only a handful had significant ongoing problems. In the case of the gentleman in the 3-part-post, it seems as if he had a significant vibration problem that led to his continual failure.

The others (in the small group of ongoing failures) could have had lemons, or there may have been something wrong with their installation or platform (excessive vibration, heat, etc).

That said, I think it's good that Emagair is addressing the sensor problem with the latest SB. At least it shows they're being proactive. I'm not an engineer so I can't say if it's a bad design or redesign, but I know plenty of engineers who disagree on how things are designed, so there's probably no single right way to do it.

For the record, I have 2 P-mags in my RV that hasn't yet flown...I'm cautiously optimistic and excited about using them. So far, the company has been very helpful and supportive with their product, which says a lot to me.
Is "lemon" a technical term? :-) I am an engineer and we try not to use such concepts when our loved one's lives are on the line, or even just our reputation. Ultimately it was the (lack of) engineering process that drove me quickly away from my similarly problematic p-mags. I also invited Brad and Tom to an "engineering session" by which I could demonstrate repeatable non-installation errors through my 90 hours of testing, to which they declined. I also dearly wanted the concept and enterprise to work. To the point of personal risk. However it became clear to me that something was missing in the analysis equation.
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