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  #1  
Old 08-16-2008, 10:54 AM
Mike Ice Mike Ice is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sedro Wooley, WA
Posts: 147
Default P mag problem

Hello,

This NOT a note bashing Emagair. This is just a service update to let folks like me know what is happening with P/E mags.

Yesterday I had a P mag problem occur at about 25 hours.

I had been flying around for about 3 hours and decided to stop and refuel. After refueling I hung around and shared stories with some others that were there. All total I was on the ramp about 45 minutes. I am telling you this to relate how long the engine and mags were possibly heat soaked. The outside air tmp was about 60 and on the ramp maybe 65 with a breeze and the airplane pointed into the breeze. I did not have the oil door opened.

As I was getting ready to depart I was doing my usual run up proceedure and when I shut off the P lead to the P mag the engine began to run rough. I turned the mag back off and the engine ran smooth, with reduced power on the emag. I turned the p lead back on to the p mag and the engine still ran smoothly so I advanced power and the engine ran rough again. This time I shut down the engine and waited a few minutes to try and reason out what was happening.

I thought that perhaps shutting the p mag off by using the p lead had some how affected the timing so I tried a restart. The engine started fine and ran good at all rpm's so I elected to depart for my home airport about 5 miles away.

Take off was normal and climb out was just fine until at about 2,000 feet the engine once again began to run rough. I looked at the CHT's they were all pretty mormal around 300 or so. I turned off the p lead to the P mag and the engine once again ran smooth so I continued on, I could see my home field now. After about a minute or so I tried turning on the P mag again and it ran fine and the engine performance increased considerablt, of course. I left the P mag on line and landed.

After landing the engine again ran rough and once again I turned off the P mag.

I called Brad this morning at Emagair and he said that this was a new problem for them and to send in the mag for bench testing.

I just wanted this episode to be recorded for future and present users of E/P mags.

Mike Ice
approx. 25 hours and I keep finding more reasons to like the RV-9 all the time, what a great little airplane.
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  #2  
Old 08-16-2008, 01:02 PM
RV7Guy's Avatar
RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,904
Default Tests

Hi Mike,

After getting home did you check the timing? Also did you check the jumper wire? Check the resistance of the plug wires too for that mag. Since it is intermittent it might be wiring related.

I was helping a friend that had virtually the same issue. We checked and the jumper wire was loose in one of the ports, so it was intermittent.

I haven't had any issues in over 170 hours now with dual Pmags. Hot weather use and no blast tubes.

My airplane hasn't seen 65 degrees since March So I doubt it is temperature related.
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Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
www.JDair.com
RV-7 N717EE-Flying (Sold)
RV-7 N717AZ Flying, in paint
EMS Bell 407,
Eurocopter 350 A-Star Driver
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  #3  
Old 08-16-2008, 01:50 PM
Mike Ice Mike Ice is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sedro Wooley, WA
Posts: 147
Default good idea

Darwin,

Thanks for ideas. That is just the info I was looking for. Constructive help is always welcome. I have the mags and I will learn to live with them.

No. I have not done as you suggested but today when I get to the airport i will. I hope it is as you suggest and just a loose wire or the loose nut behind the stick.

If not I will remove the unit today and mail it back to Emagair.

Mike
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  #4  
Old 08-16-2008, 10:34 PM
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SMO SMO is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Salmon Arm, BC
Posts: 933
Default Interested in resolution

Keep us up to speed with what you find. I just ordered a pair of Pmags this week and will follow this with interest.
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Mark Olson
1987 RV-4 Sold
2003 Super Decathlon - Sold
F1 EVO Rocket, first flight May 31/14
First in line for the Sonex JSX-2T kit
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  #5  
Old 08-17-2008, 12:47 AM
Mike Ice Mike Ice is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sedro Wooley, WA
Posts: 147
Default More P mag info

Darwin,

I went to the airport and pulled on the wires of the P-Mag hoping to find what you mentioned but no joy. The wires were secure and the fixture was tight. I then pulled the plugs and they were all good. I centered the engine on TDC and both mags had bright green lights so they were in time.

At that point I pulled both the P mag and the E mag and put them in a box and they are on their way to Azle Texas.

By the middle of next week I should know what went wrong. Or at least I hope that they find something wrong. If they don't find something then I am really going to be troubled.

Mike Ice
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  #6  
Old 08-17-2008, 01:29 AM
gmcjetpilot's Avatar
gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,285
Default Stuff happens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Ice View Post
I called Brad this morning at Emagair and he said that this was a new problem for them and to send in the mag for bench testing.
Sometimes stuff stops working, that is why we have two of them. You seemed focused on heat as the reason. The heat soak could have just been a coincidence of timing? I think the fact it has 25 hours on it is more interesting. Often it takes time for electronics to burn-in. Problems crop up early. Once past that burn in period you can expect high reliability.
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Raleigh, NC Area
RV-4, RV-7, ATP, CFII, MEI, 737/757/767

2020 Dues Paid

Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 08-17-2008 at 01:35 AM.
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  #7  
Old 08-17-2008, 03:15 AM
dealfair dealfair is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: George West, TX
Posts: 567
Default Testing Temperature

Thanks for the info all;

Am installing P mags today so will be extra super careful. Bought a cheapo digital cooking thermometer at Wal-Mart today. Planning on taping the probe close to the mags to get a sense of the heat there before I start wrestling with blast tubes. Can monitor the readout in the cockpit.

I'm encouraged that Darwin hasn't had any problems as we share similar temp ranges.

....man, I just hate "rough" engine at any altitude....

Deal Fair
RV-4 (N34CB)
George West, TX (8T6)
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  #8  
Old 08-17-2008, 06:41 AM
Steve Sampson Steve Sampson is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire, England
Posts: 1,050
Default

I have two P-mags also, though only about 20 trouble free hours so far.

Since my RV4 is the first home built with dual P-mags in the UK (in fact dual non-certified mags on a Lyco style engine) I was concerned that they did not hiccup in front of the LAA, the UK certifying body, since they are watching closely.

I had a long chat with Brad (E-mag Inc), he is really helpful, and his only real concern was that I got good blast tubes pointing at the neck of the mag. The mag's record the highest temp they have seen internally, in software, and I understand most returned units have been over temped. I will be interested to see the result of yours.

I also have some of those contact bits of paper that turn colour if/when they over temp. They are set for 93C. So far the RH one is still its original colour, I can see it from the oil door. (The LH I havnt seen for a while since I need to take the top cowl off.)

I do worry about the temp after a short shut down, though here in the UK its not so hot...particularly this summer. But as I say its not exceeded 93C.

PS I understand that Rob Hickman plans to support the EICAD interface through the ACS3400/3500. For those that have that EFIS that will be great because then we will hopefully be able to monitor the temperature in real time.
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Steve

G-IKON Build log here , or Index to blog here.
RV4 #4478 - Flying since 16th June '08. First flight video here.
Circuits at my 1000' strip.
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  #9  
Old 08-17-2008, 07:59 AM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default

Mike,

The others are right on with the high temp thing. I can say for a fact that I have cooked mine before but I believe it is during shut down on 90+ degree days here in the Carolinas and yet mine seem to keep working.

Is there any chance that the ground wire is shorting out in flight or some such odd thing?

How are your CHT's looking when it acts up? Usually when they loose timing, your CHT's will go sky high.

Bill
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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  #10  
Old 08-17-2008, 09:44 AM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default

PS. The 114 Pmags have a small "Nonreversible Square Single-Point Temp Label" on them.

Brad from Emagair said they got them from McMaster-Carr (where else?) and the part number is 5952K222. These change colors at 200 Deg F and come 21 labels per card and cost $7.61 a card.

I have bought some for my 113 P-mags but have yet to put them on because I haven't pulled the cowl since they arrived.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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