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08-10-2008, 06:42 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel
It is called "Flame Stop I-DS" and for about $30 you can treat your entire interior for an extra level of protection.
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Is this the same stuff that caused major corrosion problems when treated fabric came in contact with aluminum?
I for one am not worried about cabin fires because if something is going to cause my seat to burn, it will probably burn my big ?ol butt and whatever cotton pants I?m wearing at the time.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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08-12-2008, 07:35 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RScott
Avgas, I don't doubt you know your stuff, but the auto fabric I used for the Interstate (no fire specs when the Interstate was certified) would have passed your test easily--I tested it before I bought it. Some auto fabrics will pass, so no need to go strictly with aviation fabric, just test it before using it, right?
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No, one does not need to go with aviation grade fabrics. Some auto materials with a high natural fibre count will be OK....and any grade of leather for example should be fine.
I'm not saying don't use auto fabrics. I'm just saying Experimental builders need to be particularly suspicious of auto fabric (regardless of what "impressive" flammability test data comes with it)...suspicious enough to test a sample by putting a flame to it. Most auto fabrics these days tend to have a very high synthetic fibre count and some of them are REALLY flammable.
When you ignite a sample of fabric until the flames take hold and then withdraw the ignition source one of three things will happen. Firstly the flames may flicker and die...that's good. Secondly, the fabric may keep burning at a steady rate...that's not so good. And thirdly, the combustion process may accelerate....that's very very bad.
I suspect most builders who have auto fabrics and carpets in their flying planes have never tested a piece for flammability. If they had done so, some of them might have got a really big surprise as to how flammable the material actually is. Some auto materials go "whooomp" when you put a flame to them.
What I'm advocating here is that it simply makes sense for builders to do a quick and dirty test on the flammability of the materials they are proposing to put in their cockpits. I'm sure any reputable upholsterer would be willing to supply a small sample of seat material or carpet.
__________________
You’re only as good as your last landing 
Bob Barrow
RV7A
Last edited by Captain Avgas : 08-12-2008 at 04:46 PM.
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08-12-2008, 08:39 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
Posts: 743
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Fire Suppression
This article gives a quick rundown on suppression systems used in racing:
http://stockcarracing.automotive.com...ems/index.html
I looked into the firecharger system (link above by Tomasz) but since it's water-based, the bottle must be protected from freezing...either removed from the plane or kept in a warm(er) environment than our typical midwest winters.
Halon still looks like the best option.
Mike
__________________
Mike Dooley
RV hitchhiker
RV8 SB
VAF#1067, EAA Chapter 91
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08-13-2008, 03:59 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
I for one am not worried about cabin fires because if something is going to cause my seat to burn, it will probably burn my big ‘ol butt and whatever cotton pants I’m wearing at the time.
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The seat material is not the only danger. It might be the carpet on the floor adjacent to the firewall that might ignite. And it may not be the fire that kills the pilot. He might be asphyxiated by the smoke coming from just a small part of the carpet burning. Firefighters know that more people die from smoke asphyxiation in fires than they do from burns. There's the classic case of the RV8 pilot who became enveloped in smoke and rather than choke to death he simply opened the canopy in flight and jumped out (with no parachute).
It's probably very difficult for the average builder to contemplate exactly how things might pan out if they experience a fire in flight. At any rate, low flammability trims can only be an advantage.
Not many years ago parents let their children wander around near open fires dressed in lightweight synthetic nightware. Many children were horribly burnt when the highly flammable fibres ignited and burnt rapidly. Nowadays parents are generally more knowledgeable and astute about these matters.
Perhaps with time the Experimental building fraternity will also become more tuned in to the dangers of installing highly flammable synthetic fabrics and trims in the cockpit.
__________________
You’re only as good as your last landing 
Bob Barrow
RV7A
Last edited by Captain Avgas : 08-13-2008 at 04:02 AM.
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08-13-2008, 01:40 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Posts: 632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas
There's the classic case of the RV8 pilot who became enveloped in smoke and rather than choke to death he simply opened the canopy in flight and jumped out (with no parachute).
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That's my plan! Except with a parachute. Halon extinguisher, portable one-shot oxygen bottle. If that doesn't work, I'm outta there. I've landed in a plane way fewer times than I've ever taken off in one anyway so the prospect doesn't bother me in the slightest 
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08-13-2008, 09:05 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas
The seat material is not the only danger. It might be the carpet on the floor adjacent to the firewall that might ignite.
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I guess it's time to get out the various brands of Walmart carpet, along with my acetylene torch and a piece of stainless steel acting as the firewall.
In all seriousness, I just want to know, what it's going to take (ignition point), without a breach through the firewall, or a firewall that's cherry red. If it's cherry red hot on the cockpit side, then I might have bigger problems.
edit: I just have this feeling, that if the firewall is already hot enough to ignite the carpet, then I'm going to feel like I've already been "cooked" due to the very small cockpit area. I am not convinced that fireproofing an RV sized cockpit is all that beneficial.
Going a bit farther................since I was once involved in a house fire, where two young boys passed out and turned blue due to smoke inhalation, I'd just as soon inhale a few times, than jump off a high rise such as the World Trade Center. I found out first hand that the smoke is very toxic, and won't take much to pass out. I've also had the "pleasure" of passing out for nearly 20 minutes in an industrial accident, when beginning to get crushed by a large overhead crane. Only took about a second before I was totally unconcious. I suppose the body and mind just has it's own way of dealing with pain.
BTW ---- both boys survived, and so did I...
L.Adamson
Last edited by L.Adamson : 08-13-2008 at 09:20 PM.
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08-14-2008, 09:36 AM
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Forum Peruser
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,458
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Flammability of RV Interiors, Clothing and concerns about FLEECE (Polyester)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas
...Not many years ago parents let their children wander around near open fires dressed in lightweight synthetic nightware...
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Many years ago, I worked for a company which developed a synthetic fiber specifically for children's pajamas. A fire retardant was added to the polymer in the fiber manufacturing process. I'm not sure if that product is still made as the company I worked for then doesn't make any acrylic fiber now.
At another company, I was involved in setting up an NBS (National Bureau of Standards) carpet flammability tester for the carpet testing lab where I worked. It was very alarming how some carpet samples burned.
While we are talking about flammability of fabrics, I will add that I personally will not fly with a polyester shirt, jacket or any polyester piece of clothing. This includes my trips on commercial aircraft. There have been burn patients who would have survived if the burned polyester clothing had not adhered to their skin. Enough said, except to say check your FLEECE jacket for fiber content.
Avgas, I'm glad you initiated this thread as I plan to take some extra precautions when I get to the point of planning my interior. (It'll be awhile at the rate I'm going.)
Don
__________________
Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/ADS-B In and Out...and I like it!
?Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard
Last edited by rv7boy : 08-14-2008 at 09:41 AM.
Reason: Added link to FLEECE
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09-01-2008, 08:22 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jupiter,FL
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketbob
If you're interior is on fire, its already too late. I doubt the flame resistance of any materials will make any difference at that point.
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I've got to agree with Bob here. I feel the best protection is to make sure a fire never starts in the first place buy using the BEST fuel sytem components, proper electrical system fusing, proven installation methods (E.G. no presurized fuel in cockpit) and the best maintenance procedures of any system on your airplane.
I still carry smoke hoods, and a halon bottle, but realistically, can never forget the guy who jumped out of his burning RV without a parachute. He said it all.
Even a whif of fuel vapors inside a small airplane is cause for grounding. None are acceptable...ever.
Wish us all luck...
Bob
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09-01-2008, 09:40 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Pedro
Posts: 1,013
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Fire in the cockpit & clothing
Just another few words here about cockpit safety. Much of the clothing that we wear is made from either cotton or is petrol-chemical based. The petrol-chemical based clothing burns well unless it has been treated. Might be wise to at least consider that when flight testing, during maintenance etc.
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09-02-2008, 02:22 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 1,262
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Classic Aero
I used Classic Aero Designs for my interior. Now I am wondering if the materials are low flammability.
Anyone know?
__________________
Webb Willmott
Jackson, MS
N32WW
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