New Dynons

[frankh]

Originally Posted by Brantel

Hey Stein,


So- With what you know about their plans and the latest announcements, would you concider a dual screen setup based on this new system compatible with an IFR bird?

I guess I don't quite understand the question?...Why do you think it would NOT be compatible?...There are lots of Dynon systems being used in IFR birds

Confused

Frank

[Brantel]

Originally Posted by frankh

I guess I don't quite understand the question?...Why do you think it would NOT be compatible?...There are lots of Dynon systems being used in IFR birds

Confused

Frank

Yes but not the same as you have seen with units with redundant ARHS and connectivity capabilities to give you a fully redundant solution.

On many occassions Stein has voiced his opinion that the current dual screen Dynon solution does not meet his standard for an IFR bird without full redundant backups of some sort. There is a reason for this and he will fill you in on the details if you ask.

That is not to say that the existing product cannot be used in an IFR solution. Everyone has there own idea of what will satisfy their comfort level. I just happen to appreciate Stein's ideas on this even though his and mine are not exactly the same.

It looks as though Dynon is planning to market themselves as the single source for Dual redundant EFIS, EMS, AP, and soon NAV, COM, GPS data. To do that for an IFR bird is going to require some major differences from the existing product base.

[docrick]

Originally Posted by Davepar

Check out what the smart people at Dynon have been up to in this picture that Doug took at OSH.

There's a lot of info in that picture for the discerning eye.

More info on the Dynon web site.

Why do these folks constantly do this to us. I'll go shred my thoughts from last week about my panel!

[Mel]

Originally Posted by docrick

Why do these folks constantly do this to us. I'll go shred my thoughts from last week about my panel!

Welcome to the world of electronics!

[Davepar]

Originally Posted by frankh

In the office showed me her new Iphone yesterday..OH my... The thing has an accelerometer in it, I bet with a little application writing you could velco the thing to the panel and go flying IMC!

I know you're kidding around, but it takes a lot more than accelerometers to make an EFIS, namely gyros. And even then, with the cheap devices used in most of today's low-end EFISes, some hinting is needed from an external source like a pitot or GPS.

Originally Posted by Brantel

I just happen to appreciate Steins ideas on this even though his and mine are not exactly the same.

Everybody's got a motive. Some people are trying to prop up the company in which they just invested several grand (e.g. "I just bought an XYZ EFIS and it's great!"). Some people make a larger profit selling some over-priced units over others. Until you know a person's motivation, be skeptical.

In the eventual system, I believe you'll be able to hook up two screens to two ADAHRS. If one ADAHRS fails, you'll be able to fail over to the other. What level of redundancy are you looking for that can't be addressed by installing two D100s with internal batteries (and two pitots if you really want to go for it)? Not sure it gets much better than that.

And just for full disclosure, I was a software engineer at Dynon for a year up until a few months ago. (I left for personal reasons--nothing to do with the products. They make good stuff there.) And I have dual Advanced Flight AF-3400s in my panel that I bought long before I worked at Dynon, and still have in my panel mainly because the units work and I'm too lazy to change my entire panel (but synthetic vision... <drool>). I'm very familiar with both companies' products.

Does anyone know if it does fullscreen on the syn-vis?

Not positive, but I think it will.

I am sure when they talk about traffic, they are talking support for displaying TIS data from a separate traffic avoidance device like the Zaon or the Gtx-330.

Probably. However as mentioned on their site, Dynon is also working on a transponder module. A large portion of the cost delta between a GTX-330 and -327 (~$1500!!) is the super fancy ARINC interface handler contained in the -330. It's a great feature for certified planes with a mess of different equipment in them, but useless to us. I've often thought that a simple mode-S transponder could be made for much less.

Why do these folks constantly do this to us. I'll go shred my thoughts from last week about my panel!

Never buy avionics (or cut your panel) in June or July. The whole game will change at Oshkosh. Of course, the delivery time is quoted as 2009. That means any time 5-17 months from now. Depends if you can wait that long.

[Brantel]

Originally Posted by Davepar

What level of redundancy are you looking for that can't be addressed by installing two D100s with internal batteries (and two pitots if you really want to go for it)? Not sure it gets much better than that.

I can think of several.

One, people really do not want to have to install two pitot's, some sort of control should be given to the pilot to be able to select gps GS for the aiding if he detects a problem with the pitot or do some different tricks to be less dependant on the pitot info.

Loose the DSAB master and the entire data sharing bit goes out the window. That goes for the new AP as well. An RV in IMC with no AP and a partial panel is not my idea of something I want to experience.

Loose DSAB or the HS34 and all your Nav sources are dead in the water and your back to using their built in screens to get directions. Can be done but who really wants to do this under pressure? What if you need to shoot an ILS with the SL30 and the HS34 or the DSAB master goes belly up?

Less important is the lack of redundancy for engine data, loose the box that the engine data is being sourced from and you have no RPM, Oil Pressure or Fuel level unless you install backups but who wants to do this when your spending all that money on glass?


Don't get me wrong, I love the new and exciting promisses from Dynon. The synthetic vision in the pics look outstanding. I now have a difficult decision to make about buy now or wait. My panel will have a Dynon solution in it one way or the other. If the future holds answers to some of the redundancy issues above, I might rethink my plan to be VFR only.

[breister]

Sweet!

Another way to look at redundancy is with something like the TruTrack autopilot. Yes, I know Dynon's now undercuts the price - but having a different method of determining level at any moment than the Dynon gives you some assurance that even if your ADHARS goes belly up you can still navigate through the soup to a landing.

By the way, with reference to the "Dynon vulnerability," I'd have to say that their heated AOA pitot seems pretty solid. It includes an annunciator light to let you know if it detects any fault, so it seems like the likelihood of an unnoticed failure would be pretty small.

[TankerBob]

Originally Posted by Brantel

I can think of several.
...........
Less important is the lack of redundancy for engine data, loose the box that the engine data is being sourced from and you have no RPM, Oil Pressure or Fuel level unless you install backups but who wants to do this when your spending all that money on glass?
................

Exceptional point! We just lost our VM1000 IMMEDIATELY after receiving transition training and haven't been able to take our -8 up for practice. Pretty hard to fly without RPM, MAN, OIL, etc. Doesn't help that the VM people are ALL in KOSH.

[f1rocket]

I'm probably in the minority here but the synthetic vision "thing" doesn't appear that useful to me. Now granted, I fly east of the Rockies where everything is going to look flat and maybe that's the reason. I like the moving maps with the detail and all, but the syn vision? I can live without it I think.

BTW, I'm in the process of picking new EFIS units for my next Rocket and the choices (and the costs) are unbelievable.

[the_other_dougreeves]

Sweeet! 7" and 10" screens, 3" mounting depth .... Pretty cool! Sounds like they will have a modular ADAHRS system like GRT or an open ADAHRS system like Chelton.

TODR