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View Poll Results: Fuel Used
100LL 110 65.09%
mixture 100LL,cargas 16 9.47%
mixture 100LL,mogas 10 5.92%
mogas 33 19.53%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 05-12-2008, 02:55 PM
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turbo turbo is offline
 
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Location: Stuart, FL /Hartford, CT/Virgin Gorda,BVI
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Default Poll On Fuel Used; 100LL, Mogas, Cargas, Or mixture

What are people using for fuel in these experimentals? With the cost of fuel rising there is $ to be saved if safety is included in the plan. i started with straight 100LL in my takeoff and landing tank and 5/1 mix of more car gas in cruize tank. luckily the gas station is 1/4 mile from hanger. more recently i have been running 50/50 mix in takeoff and land tank. i have flown thousands of hours this way so far with no problems. Turbo
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  #2  
Old 05-12-2008, 03:48 PM
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Default difference

between cargas and mogas?...
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  #3  
Old 05-12-2008, 03:59 PM
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Post difference

Alcohol is in the cargas
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Ed D'Arcy
RV6-A 5,200+ hrs, R-44 1,600 hrs, Helicycle 320 hrs, gyro sold,35,000 miles flown in 2015
Stuart, Fl / S WINDSOR,Ct / Virgin Gorda, BVI - under major repair from hurricane damage
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  #4  
Old 05-12-2008, 10:35 PM
joeboisselle joeboisselle is offline
 
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Location: White Swan Wa.
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo View Post
Alcohol is in the cargas
This I didn't know.

Turbo, if you search around there's been quite a few posts debating this topic, although it is interesting to see what people are actually doing vs. what's said. I did an experiment well over a year ago testing the effects of alcohol on typical fuel system parts. i.e. pro-seal, gaskets from the fuel cap, strainer and carburetor. I found the alcohol softened these parts more than 100ll, but in my opinion not to the point of failure. Pro-seal is tricky, if not mixed in the right proportions, too "lean of a mixture" for example seems to deteriorate faster than the correct amount, obviously. Ask me how I know. I voted for pure mogas, as 100ll isn't readily available in my neck of the woods. If it were, I'd be going with a 50/50 mix. I can really feel and hear the difference between the two and I'm not sure it's healthy on an o-360 to be burning 92oct mogas.
I need my own "gas station" on my strip.
my $.02 for ya.
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2008, 10:57 PM
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frankh frankh is offline
 
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Default I didn't know that either

As to whether Mogas is healthy for an O360 I would argue the 100LL is less healthy.

If your CR is reasonable and so your timing then the only thing 100LL is doing is fouling the plugs and providing another contaminant for the oil.

This assumes you have a "Modern" o360 (newer than 20 years I believe) with hardened valve seats.

I bet there are a few running on cargas only too..i.e the poll should have another category.
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  #6  
Old 05-12-2008, 11:17 PM
joeboisselle joeboisselle is offline
 
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Default

Mag checks are fine, 50-75 drop each side... I wont argue 100ll is healthier, but I've grown to know the way a lycoming sounds and feals while running on it. Perhaps I'll forget with more hours on mogas. In the mean time, it just makes me nervous. No fouling is a plus!
I don't know if you'd call my o-360 new... the major moving parts are new or overhauled. The rest of the engine came from well over 20 different sources.
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Last edited by joeboisselle : 05-12-2008 at 11:19 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-13-2008, 02:03 AM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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Default Safety and is it really cheaper?

The NTSB accident reports are littered with Mogas or Car gas related accidents, eg vapor lock, fuel contamination and so on. If you don't believe me check it out. Unfortunately "FUEL SYSTEM - VAPOR LOCK" lock is not the only key work that turns up the results. Some times FUEL SYSTEM - STARVATION comes up and you have to read the text where it mentions automotive fuel and loss of fuel pressure.

Also checking for autogas, automotive gas, I forgot all the possible variations will turn up (some of) the accidents related to car gas.

Also automotive gas is more subject to carb icing as well. Of course the ability of autogas to hold more water and be retail with No-No additives (alcohol) is well known. Hot RV cowl, hot temps with autogas equals high likely hood of vapor lock.

To be fair some avfuel planes have suffered the two above. Mixing is an unknown and inexact science or known entity.

How much do you save?

I use only 100LL and the savings is very small to go to mo-gas (some will say savings are great, but the math does no work out). As gas goes up, that $1 (or less) difference from 100L v Mogas is a smaller percent of the total cost.

Is it worth it to slep to the gas station with gas containers in tow and haul it to the airport and fuel you plane. Is it worth it?

Last on a cross country you are not going to use Mogas in your 160HP and up engine. You just are not going to find much Regular Mogas and you can forget premium Mogas. Mogas sold at airports by the way is way more than hauling it from a gas station, so that possible $1 savings is shot. I have seen MOgas cost MORE than 100LL!

Last unless you have a 150HP engine, you should only consider premium car gas, which is not readily available at airports which sell "regular".

If you run any car gas you lower the resistance to vapor lock (increase vapor pressure). RV's have very tight hot cowls. If you attempt auto gas (and I am not recommending) you should take all the precautions to cool and insulate gascolator, fuel pump and fuel lines at least. Some even add a small vapor return line.

You can see I am not a fan of car gas and think its false economy, sorry. The average cost of 100LL is $4.00-$4.50 and car gas is in the $3.30-$3.50 for regular, premium a little more. Getting and hauling gas is a pain and dangerous in that its flammable and you can introduce contamination into the fuel.

I know there are devote believers. This is not written for you. For those who want to be fully informed take my info and advise, really check it out 100%, research it. It's not all bad, but there are real issues. Just my opinion, please don't flame me I am sensitive.
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 05-31-2008 at 05:08 AM.
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  #8  
Old 05-13-2008, 06:02 AM
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Geico266 Geico266 is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot View Post
How much do you save?
I have a 100 gallon tank on a trailer with a 12V pump. I have pumped over 5,000 gallons though the system saving an average of about $1 a gallon, as I only use 92 octane preimium mogas, and mix it with 100LL depending on the engine. That roughly $5,000 savings.

George, being aware of what you are pumping, fuel management, and cleanliness must be taken very seriously. Mogas is manageable if proper precautions are taken. Using 5 gallon metal cans from the back of a pickup is not a good idea.

I have seen horrid "fuel systems" when visiting other RV pilots and their hangers. Deteriorating hoses sheading rubber into the fuel, old rank gas being mixed with new gas. NO FILTERING? rusty 55 gallon drums for storage with no tops!

We can debate 100LL -v- Mogas all day long, but the facts are alot of us have used it safely for years and with fuel prices what they are I suspect more pilots looking towards their local gas stations for relief.
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Last edited by Geico266 : 05-13-2008 at 06:08 AM.
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  #9  
Old 05-13-2008, 07:12 AM
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frankh frankh is offline
 
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Default Definately

Mogas/cargas does have have some downsides, but they are manageable.

Thats why my fuel pumps are in my wingroots..Not having any kind of pump inside a hot cowl and bolted to a hot engine means I can all but forget about VL issues.

Frank
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  #10  
Old 05-13-2008, 07:42 AM
allbee allbee is offline
 
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Location: spokane, wa
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Default

Not all mogas has alki in it.

I would think again before using that statement. Don't go by the fact there is NO label stating so. I thought that, until I tested the mogas in my town. If you find a station that doesn't have mogas, I would test it every single time. The fuel companies now get tax relief if they put in that alki.

answer to all of this, start pushing for fuel that doesn't have lead in it at our local airports, then we can have an alternative. A safe alternative.
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