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  #11  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:43 AM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
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Sonny,

Like the others, the panel looks good. Here are a few of my thoughts.

1. Replace the master toggle with a slit Cessna Master switch.
2. Move the ELT panel way over to the right. You won't need that except in the rare event. Or move the intercom to the left and put it on the same "row". See this picture to get an idea of what I'm talking about:

3. Swap the carb heat and flap switch placements. That way you can push the carb heat in with your thumb and toggle the flaps up with your middle finger on a go around. Click on the this pictures to see what I'm talking about:

The way you have it configured you will have to move your hand off the throttle to toggle the flaps up or down. This way your hand can stay on the throttle when raising or lowering the flaps.
4. Move the cabin heat over the far right side. You will still be able to reach it while strapped in.
5. Put the fuel pump to the left of the newly relocated carb heat. (Don’t forget to space the carb heat far enough to the left of the throttle quadrant that you can pull it out. Same goes for the spacing of the flap switch, make it close enough that you can reach it with your hand on the throttle quadrant. There are more pictures of my layout on my web page, you might want to check it out.)
6. Put a space between the fuel pump and the other switches so you don't accidently hit it on or off. While you are at it, put a green fuel pump on light top dead center, above your main EFIS. This is a check list item and that light will tell you if you forget to turn the pump on or left it on in cruise.
7. Fuses or breakers? I see no placement for either. If using fuses, you can use a three way position for the strobes and landing lights, per Aeroelectric Bob. Down is off, middle it nav lights, and up is nav and strobes.
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
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Last edited by N941WR : 05-01-2008 at 09:52 AM.
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  #12  
Old 05-01-2008, 10:04 AM
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BuckWynd BuckWynd is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rockford, IL
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Sonny,

In addition to the excellent suggests above, I'd suggest moving your "EFIS backup battery" switch over to the right side of the panel somewhere -- for the same reason that Bill R. suggested moving the ELT over there: it's a rarely used item.
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RV-8 N18XL
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  #13  
Old 05-01-2008, 10:35 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
Smile Placards

Quote:
Originally Posted by smithhb View Post
Gil, Other than the Passenger Warning, what are, or where can I find the "required" placards for an RV-9?
No required placards on experimentals, other than the Passenger Warning you mention.

I just pointed out the required one on my Tiger to show that strobes and nav lights switches should be separated.

An example of the certified required placards can be found on this TCDS...

http://www.aucountry.com/ACA_Folder/...AA5B_Type.html

...you wonder how many are pilot required and how many are lawyer required...

gil A

PS .. placards might be used to define limits that are not marked on instruments...
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  #14  
Old 05-01-2008, 12:09 PM
Bill Ervin Bill Ervin is offline
 
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Location: Midlothian Texas
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Speaking of eggs in a basket! I just can't get my head around the integral autopilot thing. If you lose yours monitors how do you control the autopilot, it'll keep you straight and level as long as you don't mess with it, but what if you "do" find yourself in hard IFR and need to change something and you have no frame of reference. I'm sticking with a separate Tru-trak connected to everything else.
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Last edited by Bill Ervin : 05-01-2008 at 12:11 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-01-2008, 12:29 PM
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macrafic macrafic is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 420
Default Not to Initiate Another Controversy, but.....

It is obvious, from reading these posts, and the many others on the topic, that some people are just more comfortable with typical guages as part of their redundancy. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. We all have to fly within our comfort levels. However, there is also nothing wrong with configurations such as the one here, that choose to NOT use staem guages.

There is more than one way to provide reasonable redundancy, but there is NO way to provide 100% redundancy(that's another topic). Before suggesting that additional guages be added, more questions should be asked about things such as multiple busses, standby backup batteries, etc.. They are not obvious from looking at the panel, but provide all the redundancy of additional guages.

I feel strongly that, while I want to move carefully forward with technology, I nonetheless want to move foreward. You will not be seeing any steam guages in my panel (unless I can find a WWII fighter guage that I could make use of, since I'm a WWII fighter buff), and you will probably NOT see the redundancy, but there will be plenty there!

The suggestions about redundancy might have been better phrased as questions or even a "don't forget about redundancy". However, I can't agree with the suggestions to use any ONE particular form of redundancy. What I CAN agree with is that there are different solutions and different levels of redundancy and that we need to consider the topic seriously as builders.

I think that those making these suggestions have their hearts and intent in the right place and most builders interpret it that way, including me. I believe there is a sincere attempt to help. But, I did want to use this example to try and raise awareness and sensitivities on the topic, without flaming anybody or any position. However, writing is a tough business; we all can't write like Bob Collins (sincere complement intended, Bob). If I've insulted anybody here, please accept my apologies!
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  #16  
Old 05-01-2008, 01:33 PM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Location: North Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
Sonny,

Like the others, the panel looks good. Here are a few of my thoughts.

1. Replace the master toggle with a slit Cessna Master switch.

6. Put a space between the fuel pump and the other switches so you don't accidently hit it on or off. While you are at it, put a green fuel pump on light top dead center, above your main EFIS. This is a check list item and that light will tell you if you forget to turn the pump on or left it on in cruise.

Certainly don't want to pick nits with anyone, but the "master toggle" has worked great in my plane for many years. Not sure why you would want a split Cessna switch. This is assuming you have some sort of over-voltage protection for your alternator that will take it off-line automatically if needed.

Another useful indicator light is a "starter" light. I have one wired to the starter side of the starter solenoid so it will indicate a stuck solenoid if it is still lit after I release the starter switch.
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2008, 01:52 PM
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lostpilot28 lostpilot28 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boise, ID
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ervin View Post
Speaking of eggs in a basket! I just can't get my head around the integral autopilot thing. If you lose yours monitors how do you control the autopilot, it'll keep you straight and level as long as you don't mess with it, but what if you "do" find yourself in hard IFR and need to change something and you have no frame of reference. I'm sticking with a separate Tru-trak connected to everything else.
I'm leaning toward the separate Trio autopilot just because of this. The added cost of a standalone autopilot & altitude hold is around $2,500 (not including servos). So there has to be some cost justification...but for the very occasional "break through a marine layer to takeoff or land" scenario, it may not be worth it. I don't plan on flying IFR hardly ever...and if it looks like "hard IFR" I probably just won't fly that day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macrafic View Post
... but there is NO way to provide 100% redundancy(that's another topic).
Nicely said, Rich...I agree with you 100%. I'm concerned with "reasonable" redundancy. A spare 0-360 engine waiting to take over for the primary would be great...but it's not reasonable.

That said, I think dual EFIS's that run on separate buss's is perfectly acceptable to me. The primary runs off the Essential Buss, and the 2nd EFIS runs off the Main buss. There will be a 2.5 Ah backup battery for the EFIS's alone. The P-mags are self-powering, and that leaves the battery to run the comm, transponder and Autopilot if needed. I think I'd land ASAP if I had electrical problems.
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2008, 01:59 PM
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lostpilot28 lostpilot28 is offline
 
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Bill, thanks for the great tips. I like Bob Nuckolls' DPDT Master switch idea. I also like your idea of swapping the flap switch and carb heat around...makes sense.

I'm going with Fuses. The 3 fuse blocks (batt, main, essential) are mounted up under the panel where I can't get to them in flight (I like it that way, so no offense to those that don't!).
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  #19  
Old 05-01-2008, 04:00 PM
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DeltaTango DeltaTango is offline
 
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Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 68
Default switches

In my -8 I used a single 3 position switch for the nav/strobe. The middle turns both nav and strobes off. Down is nav only. Up is nav & strobe. This allows for just nav or nav and strobe. By having Nav in the down positon, when I shut down all my switches are in the down / off position. If I forget to turn the master off, the nav lights are still on to remind me. Saves space, saves money.
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  #20  
Old 05-01-2008, 04:13 PM
allbee allbee is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: spokane, wa
Posts: 805
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I personally am using steam for my main guages, and the D180 for everything else. Why, I don't want to put a whole bunch of money into the panel. I also fly over 300hrs a year and if the D180 needs to get worked on, so what, I'll have everything I need in backup, I still fly. I have no problem with a single switch for master, my other plane has that, so will this one, along with two toggle switches for the mags. I'm only putting the ptt in the stick, I bought a minnie switch from B&C for that. I guess I rather fly out the window than get too involved with the panel, which by the way, I will be able to land my airplane without any guages, I'm doing that with the plane I have currently, not a big issue for me, than again I do over 5000 touch and goes a year as well.
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