?I don?t know what he is doing up there?.....ATC Controller

[jbDC9]

Originally Posted by Ron Lee

My view is that they need to accept my request for flight following so that we can all work together.

Yep, in a perfect world that'd be nice... but the reality is that the SoCal controllers deal with so much IFR and jet traffic that they just don't always have the time for pop-up flight following requests.

Cool trip report and pics! Back in January I did a similar trip from Houston to Palm Springs... my main targets to see were Big Bear, Chino and Catalina Island. I got all of 'em, plus Flabob, Perris Valley, Santa Paula, and up the PCH to Watsonville. Stopping in at Flabob and Santa Paula (cool little airports!) and buffalo burgers at Catalina were the high points of the trip I think. It was definitely nice to see some actual scenery instead of the same old flatness we have around Houston. Now I wanna go back!

[rv7boy]

Originally Posted by Ron Lee

My view is that they need to accept my request for flight following so that we can all work together.

Or at least ACKNOWLEDGE your request. If they don't have time to provide VFR Flight Following, they should at least deny your request. I understand ATC is a hectic job, and they don't HAVE to provide radar services.

I found out the hard way in the Chicago sector a few years ago that the controllers there are notorious for ignoring VFR pilots. I don't mind being told "No" but I honestly thought I had a radio problem. My repeated transmissions choked up the airwaves a lot more than if the controller had just said "VFR Flight Following Denied." I finally got the message that I was being given the cold shoulder.

Don

[Sam Buchanan]

Originally Posted by Ron Lee

Sam, my point was not well written. Basically I cruise where there is minimal chance of encountering most GA traffic. Why go long distances at 2000-3000 feet AGL when you can well fly above that traffic?

Throw in VFR flight following for whatever added traffic detection it provides and I am happy.

Note the Cessna I saw on final as I was turning base to final. I never heard the guy and I was making proper position reports.

VRF flight corridors? Not for me.

I knew what you meant, Ron.

But.......if you want some real excitement (that stuff about tanglin' with jets is child's play ) check out one of the Pancake breakfasts when 30-40 hungry VFR pilots are converging on a single non-towered runway within about twenty minutes.

[Ron Lee]

I know that VFR flight following is not assured. BUT.....doesn't it make sense to have them know where I am and that my altitude is correct to help facilitate traffic flow into LAX? I can even make reasonable changes in altitude/course to help them but only if we are talking.

They knew I was there. TCAS on the aircraft I saw picked me up. I should not have been a hazard even if I were not talking to them.

If I am a bother..just say so. But I will fly where I fly. Cooperate and make things better, or ignore me and have to deal with an uncooperative target.

ATC folks....decide which you like better.

[Louise Hose]

Thanks, Ron. I sure do miss the West! My family cabin was just to the right edge of your Big Bear photo, two blocks north of the approach end, and site of an informal RV fly-in and Ironflight B-day party last September (http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...light=big+bear).

[the_other_dougreeves]

Great trip write-up and photos; thanks!

As for ATC being surprised that you were above the Class B, well .... it's not like you weren't trying to get their attention. However, all my time flying with friends through / around the Class B there has been IFR, although 100% in VMC - my friends there report that it's just easier to file than to "pop-up" and ask for FF; having flown across the class B several times, I believe it.

TODR

[airguy]

I'll agree with that - on my trips into ADS from west Texas I find it easier to file IFR than deal with VFR flight following. VFR staying out of Class B into ADS is a hassle from my direction (MAF or SJT) simply because it's dead on the far side of the class B from my origin requiring me to make many extra miles to stay clear, and if I'm going to be talking to them anyway I might as well make it IFR where they can't conveniently "drop" me if things get busy.

[asav8tor]

........................

[JCFL]

Originally Posted by Ron Lee

I know that VFR flight following is not assured. BUT.....doesn't it make sense to have them know where I am and that my altitude is correct to help facilitate traffic flow into LAX? I can even make reasonable changes in altitude/course to help them but only if we are talking.

They knew I was there. TCAS on the aircraft I saw picked me up. I should not have been a hazard even if I were not talking to them.

If I am a bother..just say so. But I will fly where I fly. Cooperate and make things better, or ignore me and have to deal with an uncooperative target.

ATC folks....decide which you like better.

I don't think that your admonishment to ATC will have much of an effect. IMHO, if I understand you correctly, taking the attitude that you will fly where you fly could put your fellow pilots, and their passengers, at risk. An airliner could be descending at several thousand fpm approaching Class B and may be at a very high airspeed. TCAS will give precious little time for such an aircraft to avoid a collision.

From my perspective attitude is at least 90% of safety. Like it or not, if you don't "fit in" you will be seen by controllers and other pilots more as an obstruction than as traffic. The ATC system is far too complex and busy to put individual rights in first priority.

As a group we are probably very "independent minded". I think we must all be ever vigilant not to put our "rights" ahead of safety.

[Steve Brown]

Originally Posted by JCFL

I don't think that your admonishment to ATC will have much of an effect. IMHO, if I understand you correctly, taking the attitude that you will fly where you fly could put your fellow pilots, and their passengers, at risk. .......

I occasionally fly over the Los Angeles Class B. There are operational reasons to do so, such as clouds with Icing to be avoided or smoke a while back during the fires.
ATC does not "like" it. On first call up I typically get a sarcastic response or one of disbelief. Once they realize I am flying over the class B, with or without flight following, they seem to get on with it.
Class B airspace is to protect jet traffic into major airports. They simply do not own the airspace above the class B or outside its confines.
I do not view legitimate use of airspace as putting people in danger. In fact, me using it is normal and reasonable. A controller getting an attitude about it is a safety hazard.