Shameless commerce

[Noel Simmons]

Gentlemen, we are a new advertiser here on Van?s Air force and I thought I would introduce myself, the staff, and our services to all of you. We are a small shop of two technicians, and my wife that does the books and whatever else needs done. We are true builder assistant that will travel to your hanger and work with you on your RV-10 Quick Build.

In two weeks, my tech and I will amass about 220 man hours, bringing you months if not an entire year closer to flying. Usually, our customers have the taken a tail kit class so the tail feathers are completed, the tail cone is mostly done but not fit to the fuselage yet, and the fuselage is setting on the belly. Two weeks from this point the sheet metal will be done and the fuselage standing on its gear.

Check out our ad at the bottom of the page!
Blue Sky Aviation Inc.
www.blueskyaviation.net
406-538-6574

Noel Simmons
A&P/EAA tech counselor
CFI/EAA flight advisor

[Mike S]

Well, I looked at your web site, and found no mention of the main item I, and probably a lot of others are curious about.

What is your price structure?

Thanks.

[Davepar]

And how do your customers truthfully certify that they completed 51% of the plane?

[Noel Simmons]

Yes this is completely leagal because the builder of the aircarft is physicaly there working.

[RVbySDI]

Originally Posted by Noel Simmons

Yes this is completely leagal because the builder of the aircarft is physicaly there working.

If I am working on the plane what are you doing that provides me value?

I would love to have someone else getting messy with Pro Seal or perhaps laying out my wiring for instruments and setting up my panel. However, as Mike asked, what does your being there cost me?

With the new stance the FAA is taking on the 51% rule and their close scrutiny of builder assist programs and "Hired Gun" builders, I think my last question could have as much to do with the cost involved in the registration of my airplane as it does the out of pocket monetary expense of paying for you to be in my shop. These are two very important issues I would have to know up front in order to make a decision on whether I would hire you for assistance.

[CNEJR]

With all due respect meant.

How would Noel helping you work on your airplane be any different in concern to the 51% rule, then a friend helping you who has experience? For that matter how do you account for the mental effort & advice given on this website to builders? Shouldn't you have to work out all the planning and ideas in a dark room in silence by yourself in order to comply with the 51% rule?

I know I have benifeted from the "mental work" of many on this website and the organization & experience provided by many friends, is this not the same?,

"He said he would help and lead you in your prescence in your work shop", if this is against the 51% rule, then you shouldn't let anybody in your workshop that has RV experience or listen to anyone on this site.

"Hired Gun" has very negative conotation. Smacks of ego.

Again all due respect to all meant, flame suit on.

[Ted Johns]

Gentlemen,

Given that Glasair is still advertising it's "two weeks to taxi" program, it's a little bit premature to say that a few hundred hours of commercial help is forbidden. The Glasair program probably provides the rough equivalent of 1200 hours of assistance. It may well be that the FAA decides that is too much. But I doubt that even the FAA knows where the precise line will be drawn at this time.

[jmartinez443]

Originally Posted by Davepar

And how do your customers truthfully certify that they completed 51% of the plane?

I believe I read/heard that you must list all builders in your application for an airworthiness cert. Can others confirm?

If so, that is how you truthfully certify that the builder(s) completed 51% - you list Noel and crew.

[ChrisL]

Originally Posted by CNEJR

How would Noel helping you work on your airplane be any different in concern to the 51% rule, then a friend helping you who has experience?

Well, Noel is being paid for his services. People who get paid for thier services are often referred to as professionals. Therefore, Noel is doing nothing wrong (and should be commended for his support of this site), but since 51% must be amature built, you just need to make sure that his services don't push you over the hump. I don't think anyone here is trying to bash Noel, and I certainly doubt he is going to just show up and build the plane for you... so no real issue here.

Simple enough to me - thread closed!

Just kidding, nomex suit now on...

[dmaib]

Noel and Brian spent several days with Mary and I last month and I will have no problem asserting that Mary and I built the airplane. We have been working hard on this project for nearly two years. What we needed was someone with experience to come direct us on what needs to be done next, as we start putting all of these little projects together to make an airplane. Mary and I put in ten hour days alongside Noel as he directed, instructed, and helped us. Someone with the knowledge that allows us to avoid some of the pitfalls that will inevitably come along for newbie builders like us, is no different than soliciting advice on this and other forums, having Stein build my panel, or getting help from a friend that really knows how to work fiberglass. Not only did it move the project ahead, it gave me more peace of mind that our work to date is good. Noel is an EAA Tech Counselor and spent quite a bit of time examining everything we had done when he arrived.