Question about forming an LLC......

[asav8tor]

Originally Posted by KPmarc

Check the certification category: Experimental/Market Survey.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...Numbertxt=53LW
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...umbertxt=313AB
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...umbertxt=765RV
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...Numbertxt=23GG
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...umbertxt=174MT

Need any more?

[BryanArd]

Originally Posted by asav8tor

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...Numbertxt=53LW
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...umbertxt=313AB
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...umbertxt=765RV
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...Numbertxt=23GG
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...umbertxt=174MT

Need any more?

According to these links, an LLC CAN be listed as the manufacturer, not just the owner. This brings me back to my original question: Can I, personally, apply for the repairman certificate, or can the LLC apply for it?

[KPmarc]

Very interesting. Technically, it's not supposed to happen.

Curious that only one of those examples actually shows the airworthiness certificate data. Of course, we all know how accurate the FAA's database is...

[Jconard]

You have to sign an affidavit that the aircraft was built by whomever you list as the manufacturer.

Your LLC did not build the airplane, you built the airplane.

More importantly, there is no "magic bullet" to creating a liability bulkhead. If the sole purpose of the corporation is to provide such a bulkhead, you better capitalize the corporation sufficiently to cover any liabilities that arise, and you better compensate the corporation for the use of the plane. Otherwise, it will be highly vulnerable to "piercing" (as in corporate veil), if and when you have a problem.

In short, in order to be treated like a corporation or other entity, and in many states LLC's have statutory treatment very similar to partnerships, you must act in all regards as if the plane was built and owned by the LLC.

Talk to an experienced lawyer, who has formed these entities and litigated these issues...such a lawyer will not be offering a $500 formation fee. When you do it will become clear that this offers little if any protection in the even that you have done something wrong.

[mdredmond]

I recently found some information that addresses this issue (whether to form an LLC) directly. I will copy my email to a fellow VAF member verbatim rather than trying to retype it:

Okay, here is what I?ve found out? This is from an aviation attorney whose name escapes me right now. Rex Reese or something like that.

Most guys who are titling the plane under an LLC or corporation for the purpose of mitigating liability are actually doing themselves a huge disservice and might be increasing their liability. The reason is that when a company owns and operates an airplane, it is acting as a ?corporate flight department? (or something like that) under the FARs. A corporate flight department generally operates under the loose requirements of Part 91 when it is operating the aircraft for its own business purposes. One requirement of Part 91 is that the flight department not be compensated for flights by passengers.

When you form an LLC and inject capital into it (for maintenance, hangar fees, operating expenses, insurance, etc.), the FAA considers that compensation. The LLC is essentially acting as a charter or on-demand operator and both the pilot and the aircraft are subject to Part 135. That means commercial pilot?s license, flight time restrictions and more vigorous inspections, not to mention that a homebuilt can?t be operated under part 135 (I don?t think). It doesn?t matter that you, acting as the company ?owner? are the only one in the plane. You, acting as the company pilot, are carrying yourself as a paying passenger (remember that you and the company are separate legal entities). If you aren?t operating under Part 135, you are operating illegally and in a manner that is de facto negligent. If you wreck and hurt someone, this fact makes a plaintiff?s case that much more airtight.

A seemingly plausible workaround is to have the LLC lease the airplane to you, personally, as the operator. But then you?ve lost the protection you sought by forming the LLC, so it?s pointless.

Hope this makes sense. This is definitely a question for an aviation attorney & I ain?t one?

[DCalland]

If a builder completes a plane and decides to put it in an LLC, who holds the repairman certificate? The individual or the LLC? Or will the LLC need to hire an A & P since it is a new owner and not the original builder?

[steve_adams]

Look at your liability when you fly, and ask yourself how the LLC will protect you.
1. You're flying and you crash, pilot error. Was the LLC flying the plane?
2. You're flying and you crash, mechanical problem. Is the pilot or the LLC responsible to ensure that the aircraft is in an airworthy condition?
3. You're flying and the wings fall off because you forgot to torque the bolts. Did the LLC build the plane or did you?
4. You sell the plane, new owner is flying and the wings fall off because you didn't torque the bolts. Was the LLC supposed to torque the bolts or were you?
5. Someone slips on your sidewalk and wins a $10 million judgement against you. They may get your house, your car, and your future earnings, but your plane will be out of reach in the LLC. So if you are at risk of being sued for something other than operating your plane, putting it in an LLC makes a lot of sense.
The point is, shifting ownership to an LLC does little to take away your personal liability of building and piloting your plane IMHO.

[Mel]

Originally Posted by DCalland

If a builder completes a plane and decides to put it in an LLC, who holds the repairman certificate? The individual or the LLC? Or will the LLC need to hire an A & P since it is a new owner and not the original builder?

Repairman certificate must be held by an individual, NOT an LLC.

[N395V]

Class experimental category ameteur built by a corp. This is also reflected on the AW certificate and the dataplate.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...&cmndfind.y=12

[arffguy]

I have seen a plane registered to a "Trust" and the pilot is then the "trustee." I don't know what benefit or problems that could create. I didn't ask, but I know the guy wasn't hurting for money.