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  #1  
Old 03-06-2008, 11:26 AM
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Phil Phil is offline
 
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Default Dupont Variprime - Does it need to be sealed or primed??

Hi Everyone,

I've been a user of Variprime 615s/616s for a while now, and a friend of mine is looking into priming his own RV-10. Then he discovered something disturbing.

If you read the DuPont Technical Datasheet on page 3 it says:

"Note: Variprime? 615S?/625S? should be primed or sealed within 16 hours for best performance."

http://www.performancecoatings.dupon...19303_615S.pdf

So we're effectively priming a primer. Or Sealing the primer with a 2 part epoxy.

That begs the question, has anyone else looked into this issue with Variprime?

Thanks,
Phil
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  #2  
Old 03-06-2008, 03:41 PM
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Vaiprime is an etch primer that adheres very well to metal if properly prepared however you might also need an intermediate primer to help a particular top coat adhere to the Variprime. The Variprime is most receptive chemically to the intermediate primer and top coat for the first 16 hours after application. It becomes harder to top coat as it ages and after a period of time will need serious cleaning and sanding to get effective adhesion. Having said all that it works very well on it's own as a protective barrier on interior surfaces and in my experience is almost bullet proof in it's ability to resist scuffing and scratching - much better than Marhyde rattle can etch primer for example.

Jim Sharkey
RV6 - Wiring etc
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  #3  
Old 03-06-2008, 03:56 PM
rv9aviator rv9aviator is offline
 
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If you don't seal the vari-prime it will soak up everything that touches it. Hand prints show the oil smudges and won't clean off. It is fine when used as intended but I use Sherwin Williams P-60 and don't seal it because it dries hard enough to not pick up dirt and oils. That's just my opinion for what little it's worth.
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Last edited by rv9aviator : 03-06-2008 at 04:11 PM.
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2008, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharkey View Post
Vaiprime is an etch primer that adheres very well to metal if properly prepared however you might also need an intermediate primer to help a particular top coat adhere to the Variprime. The Variprime is most receptive chemically to the intermediate primer and top coat for the first 16 hours after application. It becomes harder to top coat as it ages and after a period of time will need serious cleaning and sanding to get effective adhesion. Having said all that it works very well on it's own as a protective barrier on interior surfaces and in my experience is almost bullet proof in it's ability to resist scuffing and scratching - much better than Marhyde rattle can etch primer for example.

Jim Sharkey
RV6 - Wiring etc
That's what I was thinking too. I've been using it internally as a barrier, but I have no plans on using it on the external surfaces. I plan on leaving all the external stuff to the pros.

I have noticed that it cures to the touch within 5-10 min. But it can still be scratched off easily. If I leave it for 24 hours, it's hard as nails.
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2008, 08:51 PM
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IMHO Variprime is a very low quality primer. Does nothing for corrosion protection and some solvents will wipe it right off.
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2008, 04:02 AM
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Default You need cold weather in Texas!

I have seen no evidence that the corrosion protection of Variprime is less than claimed.

I have used laquer thinner to remove most Variprime. Wipes it right off. However, I learned something by chance the other day when I decided to clean up a primed part and take it to get anodized. I had one heck of a time getting the primer off. It took lots (20 min) of elbow grease and pressure with a scotchbrite pad and lots of thinner to get the stuff off the 2 small parts. I realized that the difference in these parts were that I had set them on my alladen kerosene heater grill to "bake" them dry because it was a little chilly the day I painted them.

I plan to bake all further parts that will be easy to do (Hmmm.. the wife works second shift and there is a big window in the kitchen... hmmmm )
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  #7  
Old 03-07-2008, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM520guy View Post
IMHO Variprime is a very low quality primer. Does nothing for corrosion protection and some solvents will wipe it right off.

You sound like a pro painter. Variprime is old tech but does seem to be as hard as nails when fully cured and it takes MEK to soften it.
Also it does pick up oily marks from hands and over lubricated rivet guns. Suprised that you don't think it provides corrosion protection though.

What would you recommend?

Jim Sharkey

Last edited by jsharkey : 03-07-2008 at 05:14 AM.
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  #8  
Old 03-08-2008, 11:14 AM
txrv10.com txrv10.com is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston Texas
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Thumbs up Primers Self Etching! to use or not to use

Phil man I put some more info out on my site containing priming with Self Etching primers.
http://www.txrv10.com/pages/primermain.html

I think what it comes down to is use a self etching primer if you want to save the alumiPrep and alodine steps, but I would prime over your self etching primer as stated on the Dupont Tech Sheet, with a 2 part Mil-Spec primer.



Dave
www.txrv10.com
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  #9  
Old 06-09-2010, 01:15 PM
Inverted Inverted is offline
 
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Location: Austin, TX
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The spars that came with an older kit I purchased were primed with VariPrime and no additional primer/sealer. I was considering removing the VariPrime and using something else. My reasoning for this is that I've read that VariPrime doesn't create a vapor barrier because it is porous. If this is the case, would I need to remove the VariPrime to inspect for corrosion? Since self etching primers contain acids that etch the metal, could I just remove it and eliminate the etching step when using another primer? Or would I be better off just inspecting a small area, putting VariPrime back over that area, and then putting another primer over it all?
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  #10  
Old 11-07-2018, 04:18 PM
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Nedimbek Nedimbek is offline
 
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Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rzbill View Post
I have seen no evidence that the corrosion protection of Variprime is less than claimed.

I have used laquer thinner to remove most Variprime. Wipes it right off. However, I learned something by chance the other day when I decided to clean up a primed part and take it to get anodized. I had one heck of a time getting the primer off. It took lots (20 min) of elbow grease and pressure with a scotchbrite pad and lots of thinner to get the stuff off the 2 small parts. I realized that the difference in these parts were that I had set them on my alladen kerosene heater grill to "bake" them dry because it was a little chilly the day I painted them.

I plan to bake all further parts that will be easy to do (Hmmm.. the wife works second shift and there is a big window in the kitchen... hmmmm )
I would NOT bake my aluminum parts, especially 2024 T3 Alloy. It will permanently alter its original heat treatment condition, making it softer hence reduce its strenght depending on the temperature and duration.
Just my 2 cents of advise.
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