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03-06-2008, 11:26 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waco, Texas
Posts: 1,658
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Dupont Variprime - Does it need to be sealed or primed??
Hi Everyone,
I've been a user of Variprime 615s/616s for a while now, and a friend of mine is looking into priming his own RV-10. Then he discovered something disturbing.
If you read the DuPont Technical Datasheet on page 3 it says:
"Note: Variprime? 615S?/625S? should be primed or sealed within 16 hours for best performance."
http://www.performancecoatings.dupon...19303_615S.pdf
So we're effectively priming a primer. Or Sealing the primer with a 2 part epoxy.
That begs the question, has anyone else looked into this issue with Variprime?
Thanks,
Phil
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03-06-2008, 03:41 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bennington, Vermont USA
Posts: 1,301
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Vaiprime is an etch primer that adheres very well to metal if properly prepared however you might also need an intermediate primer to help a particular top coat adhere to the Variprime. The Variprime is most receptive chemically to the intermediate primer and top coat for the first 16 hours after application. It becomes harder to top coat as it ages and after a period of time will need serious cleaning and sanding to get effective adhesion. Having said all that it works very well on it's own as a protective barrier on interior surfaces and in my experience is almost bullet proof in it's ability to resist scuffing and scratching - much better than Marhyde rattle can etch primer for example.
Jim Sharkey
RV6 - Wiring etc
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03-06-2008, 03:56 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 1,505
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If you don't seal the vari-prime it will soak up everything that touches it. Hand prints show the oil smudges and won't clean off. It is fine when used as intended but I use Sherwin Williams P-60 and don't seal it because it dries hard enough to not pick up dirt and oils. That's just my opinion for what little it's worth.
__________________
Jim Wright
RV-9A N9JW 90919 SoldArkansas
http://www.jimsairplanes.com
_______________________
"It's a brutal struggle for the biscuit."
Last edited by rv9aviator : 03-06-2008 at 04:11 PM.
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03-06-2008, 07:14 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waco, Texas
Posts: 1,658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharkey
Vaiprime is an etch primer that adheres very well to metal if properly prepared however you might also need an intermediate primer to help a particular top coat adhere to the Variprime. The Variprime is most receptive chemically to the intermediate primer and top coat for the first 16 hours after application. It becomes harder to top coat as it ages and after a period of time will need serious cleaning and sanding to get effective adhesion. Having said all that it works very well on it's own as a protective barrier on interior surfaces and in my experience is almost bullet proof in it's ability to resist scuffing and scratching - much better than Marhyde rattle can etch primer for example.
Jim Sharkey
RV6 - Wiring etc
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That's what I was thinking too. I've been using it internally as a barrier, but I have no plans on using it on the external surfaces. I plan on leaving all the external stuff to the pros.
I have noticed that it cures to the touch within 5-10 min. But it can still be scratched off easily. If I leave it for 24 hours, it's hard as nails.
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03-06-2008, 08:51 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Texas, where else.
Posts: 450
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IMHO Variprime is a very low quality primer. Does nothing for corrosion protection and some solvents will wipe it right off.
__________________
RV-8A builder
A&P mechanic
Aviation Plasticized Pigmented Polymer Application Engineer
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03-07-2008, 04:02 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,692
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You need cold weather in Texas!
I have seen no evidence that the corrosion protection of Variprime is less than claimed.
I have used laquer thinner to remove most Variprime. Wipes it right off. However, I learned something by chance the other day when I decided to clean up a primed part and take it to get anodized. I had one heck of a time getting the primer off. It took lots (20 min) of elbow grease and pressure with a scotchbrite pad and lots of thinner to get the stuff off the 2 small parts. I realized that the difference in these parts were that I had set them on my alladen kerosene heater grill to "bake" them dry because it was a little chilly the day I painted them.
I plan to bake all further parts that will be easy to do (Hmmm.. the wife works second shift and there is a big window in the kitchen... hmmmm  )
__________________
Bill Pendergrass
ME/AE '82
RV-7A: Flying since April 15, 2012. 850 hrs
YIO-360-M1B, mags, CS, GRT EX and WS H1s & A/P, Navworx
Unpainted, polished....kinda'... Eyeballin' vinyl really hard.
Yeah. The boss got a Silhouette Cameo 4 Xmas 2019.
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03-07-2008, 05:05 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bennington, Vermont USA
Posts: 1,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM520guy
IMHO Variprime is a very low quality primer. Does nothing for corrosion protection and some solvents will wipe it right off.
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You sound like a pro painter. Variprime is old tech but does seem to be as hard as nails when fully cured and it takes MEK to soften it.
Also it does pick up oily marks from hands and over lubricated rivet guns. Suprised that you don't think it provides corrosion protection though.
What would you recommend?
Jim Sharkey
Last edited by jsharkey : 03-07-2008 at 05:14 AM.
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03-08-2008, 11:14 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 1
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Primers Self Etching! to use or not to use
Phil man I put some more info out on my site containing priming with Self Etching primers.
http://www.txrv10.com/pages/primermain.html
I think what it comes down to is use a self etching primer if you want to save the alumiPrep and alodine steps, but I would prime over your self etching primer as stated on the Dupont Tech Sheet, with a 2 part Mil-Spec primer.
Dave
www.txrv10.com
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06-09-2010, 01:15 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 133
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The spars that came with an older kit I purchased were primed with VariPrime and no additional primer/sealer. I was considering removing the VariPrime and using something else. My reasoning for this is that I've read that VariPrime doesn't create a vapor barrier because it is porous. If this is the case, would I need to remove the VariPrime to inspect for corrosion? Since self etching primers contain acids that etch the metal, could I just remove it and eliminate the etching step when using another primer? Or would I be better off just inspecting a small area, putting VariPrime back over that area, and then putting another primer over it all?
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11-07-2018, 04:18 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rzbill
I have seen no evidence that the corrosion protection of Variprime is less than claimed.
I have used laquer thinner to remove most Variprime. Wipes it right off. However, I learned something by chance the other day when I decided to clean up a primed part and take it to get anodized. I had one heck of a time getting the primer off. It took lots (20 min) of elbow grease and pressure with a scotchbrite pad and lots of thinner to get the stuff off the 2 small parts. I realized that the difference in these parts were that I had set them on my alladen kerosene heater grill to "bake" them dry because it was a little chilly the day I painted them.
I plan to bake all further parts that will be easy to do (Hmmm.. the wife works second shift and there is a big window in the kitchen... hmmmm  )
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I would NOT bake my aluminum parts, especially 2024 T3 Alloy. It will permanently alter its original heat treatment condition, making it softer hence reduce its strenght depending on the temperature and duration.
Just my 2 cents of advise.
__________________
Nedim Bek
Almost time.
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