Reality Check

[tomcostanza]

A local community college has an aviation program at a nearby community airport. I asked one of their twenty-something instructors for a guesstimate on how much training I would require to get a commercial license with about 250 hours TT, complex endorsement, but no instrument rating. He said about 40-50 hours. Then he introduced me to their Top Gun, examiner (sixty-something), of whom I asked the same question. He said 10 hours. I'm thinking, split the difference, but I thought some of you might give me a realistic guesstimate. The plan would be to pass the knowledge test first.

Many thanks in advance.

[frankh]

Do you want instrument privilages?.....Normally you get your IFR ticket before your commercial but your not required to do that.

It took me 55 hours to get my instrument with 500 hours TT.

I have not done my commercial but I can't see anything there that is difficult...Except trying not to roll completley inverted on those silly chandelle manouver thingy's...

Frank

[John Clark]

The usual route is to get your instrument ticket then the commercial. Bluntly, there is very little use for a commercial without an instrument ticket. As a practical matter, you could save some time by doing the instrument first because of the "hood" time requirement in the commercial.

John S. Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

[Yukon]

With a VFR commercial you can tow gliders, spray crops, do aerial photography, fly tour flights, tow banners AND..... do not have to demonstrate instrument proficiency during commercial checkride. All in all, a win-win proposition.

[pierre smith]

Originally Posted by frankh

...Except trying not to roll completley inverted on those silly chandelle manouver thingy's...

Frank

FWIW,
I've had a bunch of guys through here for transition training and not one of them could do a good chandelle. Lazy 8's are another matter....to be able to climb the exact amount of altitude in each turn and descend to the same start altitude, while executing a 180 degree turn...and keeping the ball centered takes quite a bit of practice....which few guys can do.

Go test yourself.

Regards,

[jbDC9]

Originally Posted by tomcostanza

...guesstimate on how much training I would require to get a commercial license with about 250 hours TT, complex endorsement, but no instrument rating. He said about 40-50 hours.

Wow; I'm thinking this young feller was looking to pad his logbook and/or wallet. There's just no way a VFR commercial ticket should take more than 10 hours.

[John Clark]

Originally Posted by jbDC9

Wow; I'm thinking this young feller was looking to pad his logbook and/or wallet. There's just no way a VFR commercial ticket should take more than 10 hours.

Depends on what is in the applicant's log book. If all the time is in a "non complex" airplane it could be time (and money) intensive.

Sec. 61.129 - Aeronautical experience.

(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes.

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least --

(i) 50 hours in airplanes; and

(ii) 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes.

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in ?61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least --

(i) 10 hours of instrument training of which at least 5 hours must be in a single-engine airplane;

(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(v) 3 hours in a single-engine airplane in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test.

(4) 10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in ?61.127(b)(1) of this part, which includes at least --

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower. <snip>

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

[steveKs.]

The commercial ticket involves more than just a couple wingovers and a spot landing. The manuvers are to be performed precisely with bank angle, altitude and airspeed all nailed. I was asked to do a three turn steep spiral to a dead stick spot landing with a direct 22 knot xwind in a A36 while calling out a prelanding checklist, I consented and it all worked out.
The oral is extensive compared to a private. Know the FAR's and your airplane inside and out.

I already had the IR but the commercial rating is worthwhile even without the instrument ticket just for the experience and training.
I am not instrument current but will use the Com by driving a Air Tractor this spring.

[jbDC9]

Originally Posted by John Clark

Depends on what is in the applicant's log book. If all the time is in a "non complex" airplane it could be time (and money) intensive.

Good point; there are a few requirements in there that I'd forgotten, the 10 hrs instrument instruction being one. My brain was referring back to 21 years ago when I did my commercial; I had most of the other requirements covered including an instrument rating, so my commercial training was 11 hrs dual. But, if he already has a complex endorsement with a few hours dual complex, then add in 10 hrs inst dual... it's still quite a stretch to say it'd take 40-50 hours.

[frankh]

Originally Posted by pierre smith

FWIW,
I've had a bunch of guys through here for transition training and not one of them could do a good chandelle. Lazy 8's are another matter....to be able to climb the exact amount of altitude in each turn and descend to the same start altitude, while executing a 180 degree turn...and keeping the ball centered takes quite a bit of practice....which few guys can do.

Go test yourself.

Regards,

Oh indeed i wasn't trying ti minimise how tricky they are, In fact my aerobatic instruction started with these with exactly the mission to fly the aircraft accurately....I know it might take a little practice but I can do 'em...and roll inverted