VFR Flight Following: No Thanks

I'm reading Ron Lee's excellent trip report and I'm struck by his experience with the "rude and unhelpful" approach controller at Las Vegas when he requested VFR flight following.

And then I read in my morning paper that the DFW Tracon is understaffed to the point of affecting safety and traffic capacity, according to the controller's union, which says this reflects a national shortage of controllers. The FAA's ATC managers, who created this problem, blithely dismiss the union's concerns, saying they see no connection between controller shortages and documented increased losses of separation.

Ron, I'm sure you are well aware that for the guy sitting at the scope, his first concern is NOT for the "safe and orderly traffic flow" you mention. First and foremost, his main job is separation of IFR traffic. He gets hammered for the dreaded "loss of separation" between IFR airplanes. Responding to VFR traffic is completely at his discretion.

So given the current shortages and hostile working conditions, it's easy to see why some of these guys are not thrilled when VFR GA airplanes pop up requesting ATC services in congested airspace. Yeah, we should all be courteous on the radio, but basically I don't blame them.

I almost never use VFR flight following, because for me, the hassles outweigh the dubious benefits. It can lead to a false sense of security. I prefer knowing that the only way I'm going to avoid traffic is to rely on myself to look out the darn window and see it, and not hope that some overworked controller may call traffic which may or may not even be squawking.

Plus, I admit it, I love living in one of the few places left on earth where we CAN fly relatively freely, without talking to a soul if we so choose. I DO always squawk VFR so airliners can see me on their TCAS, but peace and quiet on the radio is worth a lot. And anything that forces you to look out the window can't be all bad.

I love this country.

No Problems

I haven't experienced any issues, especially with attitude while using flight following. But like you I don't rely on an ATC to call out traffic, I will be looking. However, if I drop off the radar screen it would be nice to have someone notice right away instead of waiting for someone to notice I'm late.

I was delivering my daughter into Meacham under DFW Bravo and the approach controller (very friendly) called out a number of vfr traffic that wasn't talking to control. I use center and approach services whenever possible in conjested airspace, even if not required, it is safer. I am aware that my eyes are my most important asset in keeping separation under VFR rules but it can't hurt having another pair of eyes looking out for me.
After 30 years of flying I have had a couple of controllers with a attitude but only a couple and my skin is pretty thick.

Going into Meacham the friendly controller called me number 2 behind a Lear and added "and you aint got a prayer of catching him". I was descending and the little devil on my left shoulder was prodding me to power up to 200 knots just to mess with the approach dude.
The friendliest voice I have ever heard and I can still hear him in my mind was a approach controller at handoff saying "17 Echo what can I do for you this evening?". I was in a iced up 172, IMC into Will Rogers.

I feel more secure with those guys staring at their little screens. Whether they know it or not they are working for me.

I'm with Scorch!

It might surprise people given that I am big on procedural flying, but about the only time I will use VFR flight following is if I am going into a strange, busy terminal area and landing at the main airport. Other than that, I am perfectly comfortable flying along not adding to the burden of an overworked system. And I say that in all seriousness, because when I DO file IFR, I want the folks to be concentrating on keeping those of us in the clouds away from each other!

When I leave my airport on the south side of Houston, it takes me about 3 minutes to clear the class B airspace going to the south, or about 7 minutes clearing it to the east or west. It's far quicker to stay underneath than to call up Approach, get put on hold, finally get a squawk, then be told to stay underneath....

I really am concerned about controller workload, and I see a serious crisis coming in the ATC system. By NOT contributing to the workload, I might be helping out in a small way. They see me as a VFR target with Mode C, so they know where I am. I am smart enough about "the system" to pretty much know where the heavy traffic is going to be, and I stay away from it.

And as Scorch says, I really enjoy the ability to fly freely, without having to talk with anyone - it's a great benefit of our nation - and who knows if it will last forever?

Paul

ATC

I've had mostly great help using VFR Flight Following. I certainly understand that they are only another resource that can assist but not warranty separation. Occasionally I've had them miss some aircraft or became too busy to continue service, that's ok. I will also just listen to their frequency to get a read on the air situation.

My eyes may be the last line of defense, but one of the reasons I went with PCAS is because I've had numerous targets mentioned by ATC where I never saw them. I would imagine that different centers have a different culture towards VFR, here in the CT area, they have been great.

One of the reasons for concern, according to an ATC buddy of mine what we are seeing is the retirement of experienced controllers. When President Regan fired all of the striking contollers in August of 1981 they hired 13,000+ replacements. Those controllers are now approaching retirement age. Kinda like the baby boom crunch. It will work itself out.

I have had favorable results with flight following. When I have passengers going CC I use them alot. By myself, not so much.

Clarification

I was not really seeking flight following as I do on cross-countries. That usually works just fine. I often fly above aircraft going to COS and on many occasions my talking to the local controllers has probably helped them fly into COS without having to divert around me. So I am convinced that talking to ATC can help them.

If there is an ATC guy here you can tell me whether it is better to have an unidentified GA aircraft crossing a landing airliners projected path (outside of Class B) or would it help to have the GA aircraft altitude verified and maintain above or below a certain altitude?

I could have just as easily flown in a manner that I would have inadvertently caused problems at LAS yet have been flying ok as a VFR pilot.

When you fly high like I do, paths between me and airlines arrival or departing an airport do cross.

Any controllers to chime in?

Ron makes a great point - if any controllers are reading, how do you feel about this? Alex?

Would you rather have us VFR GA guys just squawk VFR, fly where we know we're out of the way, and not bother you (like me and Iron), or do you prefer us to come up on the radio and request services so you are talking to us?

I'm also wondering if anyone knows of any actual, uh, data on this issue. Do airplanes using flight following actually have fewer near-misses, or collisions? I'm not even sure how you could measure this. NASA reports?

I use flight following on long flights. My attitude is that it is just an additional tool to help get the job done but it doesn?t change the roll or responsibility I have for the flight. I realize that I am the controller?s lowest priority but so far it has worked well for me.

Here is where I think flight following shines and this is purely my opinion. I have a 3 lb paper weight in my plane and it?s only purpose (again IMHO) is to satisfy a regulation. It?s called an ELT. When I am flying over large jagged rocks sticking out of the snow, I like hearing a voice on the other end ?just in case?.

VFR flight following is a great service IF the controller has time to provide it. I've stopped using it because of a couple instances where the controller got very busy with IFR traffic and failed to hand me off or say service terminated, squawk 1200. You sit there paying attention to what's going on and there's been a disconnect on the other end. On one occasion a 757 got a TCAS warning, I saw him coming, and the controller was not aware of the conflict even though I was plugged into the system. Maybe it was a training situation as another person did come on to deal with the slightly irritated 757 driver. In this instance, TCAS worked as it always does. I kept my transmitter silent during the exchange as there was nothing constructive to add. Everyone knew I had fallen through the cracks.

Whether you use flight following on not, it is very important to squawk mode C at all times. Part 121 guys and most corporate jets carry TCAS II these days and they will get a warning and resolution advisory (RA) of any potential conflict with VFR traffic. They have authority to leave an assigned altitude when that alert goes off. In fact, company policy mandated following the TCAS II RA when I was on the pay roll. Of all the bell and whistle systems, it is the best.

VFR Flight Following

You are right that it falls under the time to provide it. As an Air Traffic controller I would say that if you feel that we are getting busy, is time to pay more attention outside the window like you did. I don't think it is a reason to stop using the service all together. One day if the government gets its way, it will cost money to get this great service.

ARTCC Controller

Alex D said:

One day if the government gets its way, it will cost money to get this great service.

ARTCC Controller

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It already does cost money to get this great service, everytime a gallon of avgas is paid for! Can't let this misconception that most people think we use the system for free go on for one second!

On a personal note, thanks for providing this service. My experiences have always been good relating to this. Like all things, you run into a jerk every now and then but for the most part, ATC has always been more than accomidating to me. Always know what your responsibilites are as PIC and all will be well.

Mode C

A few years ago I was flying merrily along over my airport when my transponder was being repaired. I was below the altitude where it was needed (but close). As I turn northward I had a feeling and looking to the east are landing lights coming right at me. No doubt that it was a near-miss encounter with a CRJ. Why ATC has airlines come over my airport at 9000' is unknown to me. It is a recipe for a mid-air.

I do look out the window, but it's nice to know that someone else is looking out too, all the time realizing that neither is foolproof, but both together will catch most of the conflicts. There are many more instances of approach or center calling traffic that I didn't see than me seeing traffic they didn't call. As far as increasing their workload goes, if they accept you for flight following, then they're not too busy. I also don't feel any less "free" when on flight following. If I change my mind about altitude or course, I just key up and let them know. Or if I want to maneuver or loiter, I just tell them that.

Also, I feel that simply having contact established is a bigger safety enhancement than traffic separation. If you need help NOW, someone out there knows where you are NOW. In July of '05 while under flight following with LA Center over the middle of the Mojave Desert at 7500', I had #5 exhaust valve part company with its stem and ventilate the piston. Almost simultaneous with hitting the NRST key on my 296, I keyed the mic and said "Cessna 3498C has a rough engine, diverting toward..." and read "Desert Center" off the top of the list of nearest airports displayed on the 296. I didn't have to mess around finding a frequency, establishing contact, or explain to them where I was. They simply gave me a bearing and distance to the airport, then asked if I wanted to declare an emergency. I arrived at the airport with over 5000' of altitude, so it turned out to be a non-emergency but it sure was nice to know that if the engine had not remained running, someone knew within a mile or two where I was.

Miles

Deven said:

I wonder sometimes if the bigger iron becomes a bit overconfident in TCAS. We have a lot of ski traffic into uncontrolled airports around here and there are a number of times while reporting in and around these airports I get the response "I don't have you on TCAS". My RV is transponder equiped, but cubs, ag birds, and helicopters aren't. Awful easy these days to spend way too much time head down in the cockpit.

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Over confident? Hardly. There isn't much to look at IMC. The system picks out the guys pushing VFR minimums, like cruising along at 4500' in and out of IMC just below a class B floor at 5000'. When TCAS goes off it shoots quite a load of adrenalin and you have no time to look around but must react to the RA immediately.

Yes, we do live in a see and be seen world but that's not good enough or we wouldn't have system like TCAS.

brayski98 said:

?However, if I drop off the radar screen it would be nice to have someone notice right away instead of waiting for someone to notice I'm late.

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McFly said:

?Here is where I think flight following shines and this is purely my opinion. I have a 3 lb paper weight in my plane and it?s only purpose (again IMHO) is to satisfy a regulation. It?s called an ELT. When I am flying over large jagged rocks sticking out of the snow, I like hearing a voice on the other end ?just in case?.

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This is the reason I use FF and as I use it primarily between congested areas I?ve always had great and friendly service.

The more we use ATC and keep their "numbers" up, the more ammo the FAA has to keep ATC staffed at current levels.

I usually use flight following

I have found that most controllers do a decent job, a few are exceptionally helpful, and a few are jerks. I guess just like any other profession.

I usually use flight following. Part of the reason is traffic separation, part so that class C airspace is irrelevant, part so that in case something bad happens someone knows exactly where I am.

Exceptions are IFR flight (obviously) and short flights of an hour or less over familiar & non-hostile terrain during the day.

The last time I filed a VFR flight plan was the early 90s.

IMO, based on observation, most controllers would rather have you use the service so that they know what you are going to do, and have some modicum of control over you flight path. I think it makes their IFR separation task easier.

My primary reason to use VFR flight following is so that I do not have to duck under or climb over positive controlled airspace -class B, C and TRSA. Ofter however if VMC I purposely do not use flight following since they will vector you all over the place to make it easier for IFR/commercial traffic. Philadelphia and New York class B is notorious for this. Class Cs aren't too bad, but I do NOT expect that just because I'm on flight following that I don't have to worry about traffic.

I do have to say that since 9/11 controllers in general are much more willing to give flight following. Back in "the good old days" unless they were absolutely bored, the just snapped "unable VFR advisories at this time."

Hummmmmm

w1curtis said:

My primary reason to use VFR flight following is so that I do not have to duck under or climb over positive controlled airspace -class B, C and TRSA. Ofter however if VMC I purposely do not use flight following since they will vector you all over the place to make it easier for IFR/commercial traffic. Philadelphia and New York class B is notorious for this. Class Cs aren't too bad, but I do NOT expect that just because I'm on flight following that I don't have to worry about traffic.

I do have to say that since 9/11 controllers in general are much more willing to give flight following. Back in "the good old days" unless they were absolutely bored, the just snapped "unable VFR advisories at this time."

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Class B ..NY you say........hummmmm

I fly the class b Hudson river all the time and was up on 911. Now I know what a ground stop is.....

The NYC controllers always give me what I want cause I know what to ask for... If they are landing using the river approach; forget going down the river at 2k. They have always given me flight following with a smile (can tell in their voice). I have TIS on board also so I can double check atc.

Gotta love this stuffffff.

Musings on a snowy night:

I use flight following 90 percent of the time I am VFR.

Ten percent of the time I, too, enjoy the freedom to aimlessly wander, and hope that option is available forever.

When I am at 1400 ft. under the Bravo shelf as the Part 121 folks are turning final over me, I am sure they appreciate 'visual separation' calls. Likewise, I appreciate the absence of the word 'unverified' on traffic calls I receive.

When it is marginal VFR, I appreciate the extra safety any cranium power looking at a screen provides.

If ever radio communication becomes heated (regardless of my status in the ATC system), I try to tactfully diffuse the situation. If that is no help, I chose the path of least resistance while airborne, never forgetting my status as Pilot In Command trumps almost all. I might initiate a phone call on the ground, so that I can learn how to be a better customer, or so that others might receive better service.

The system is there for our benefit, and every drop of fuel (mogas excluded ) pays for it. As the sign says, "Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part." I will not temper my use due to an 'overworked' system, such surrender is a disservice to future use.

I absolutely LOVE to fly, it makes me smile often.

I am a retired controller from LAS, now instructing new controllers at LAS.
This is part of a email I sent Ron this morning.
Sunday afternoons are about the busiest days that they work. Under normal conditions the departures off Las depart to the southwest, heading 210 and climb to Fl190 and at about 10,000 feet they turn toward either the west, south, or east. So the best way to get to Hnd from the west/southwest is to decend below the class B and stay at least 10 miles from Mccarran airport. The controller actually helped you by having you stay outside the class B. If he had given you a class B he would have had to vector you 20 miles south of LAS to miss the departures.
However if you are on flight following even if you are staying clear of the class B, you should be given terrain and traffic advisories. My feeling is you are better on approach frequency than not so at least you can get a feel of other traffic and the controller can issue traffic of your aircraft to his traffic and know what your altitude is and where you are going, having said that, don't bet your life that the controller is doing this.Ron's major complaint was the attitude of the controller, which I concur there is no excuse for.

I can't remember the last time I left Savannah and didn't have FF. I don't even ask for it. It's just given. I have only encountered three grumpy controllers in my four years of flying the NC-SC-GA-FL coasts.

Most of the flying I've done in the past year has been 500+ nm cross countries & I attempt to get flight following every time. As many of you said, the controllers #1 priority is IFR traffic. Because of that (and manning, and probably other stuff), I'm fairly often not able to get flight following around my home drome during the day. So, I plan ahead & have a listing of the freq's for the controllers along the way. If I can't get flight following with one controller, I'll try with the next one. Usually I won't go for long before being picked up.

IMHO, I think flight following is a great added safety measure, BUT you absolutely cannot rely on it to save you from a mid-air, to keep you out of the rocks, or anything else. My first flight instructor pounded home a critial lesson to VFR safety - look outside. Boy was I ever bad at looking outside.

Have fun...