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01-16-2008, 04:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 543
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Aircraft Purchase Plans ? Please Play Devils Advocate
Hey ? I?d love some thoughts as to the logic of my plans. From my perspective it seems like a solid plan, but I?d love to hear from those with more experience to see if there is some flaw that I?m not seeing.
I have always wanted to build a plane. After a ton of research, I really want to build an RV-7A or a RV-9A. However, I?m not sure that it makes the most sense at this time. I currently am a 35 year old student pilot with 30 or so hours under my belt. I want the RV, but based on my skill level, a ?trainer? type aircraft would make more sense in the immediate future.
Here?s my tentative plan;
1) Buy a ~$25,000 Cessna 150/152, Piper Tomahawk, etc this spring/summer ?08
2)Pay it off over the next 12 months.
3) Order an RV kit - Summer/Fall-09
4) Build RV Kit ? 2-3 years.
5) When ready for an engine for the RV, sell the 150/Tomahawk and use the funds for a new engine.
Seems to me like I can find a 150/152/Tomahawk with low hours (<600) on the engine in the $25K range. Assuming I fly a hundred or so hours a year for the next 2-3 years, I imagine that I should be able to get what I paid for it back out (or close to it) when I sell.
If I go this route, I would have a solid plane to fly for the next few years, and by the time the RV is finished, I will have several hundred hours under my belt which should help with insurance.
Has anyone else gone this route, and are there any pitfalls that I?m not seeing?
Thanks,
UnPossible
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01-16-2008, 04:43 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,849
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Buy the tail kit now! Start building asap. I think the tail kit is pretty cheap so it shouldn't put to big of a dent in the other aircraft purchase.
__________________
Todd
N110TD
RV-10 Vesta V8 LS2/BMA EFIS/One formerly flying at 3J1 Hobbs stopped at 150 hours
Savannah, GA and Ridgeland, SC
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01-16-2008, 04:44 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnPossible
Hey ? I?d love some thoughts as to the logic of my plans. From my perspective it seems like a solid plan, but I?d love to hear from those with more experience to see if there is some flaw that I?m not seeing.
I have always wanted to build a plane. After a ton of research, I really want to build an RV-7A or a RV-9A. However, I?m not sure that it makes the most sense at this time. I currently am a 35 year old student pilot with 30 or so hours under my belt. I want the RV, but based on my skill level, a ?trainer? type aircraft would make more sense in the immediate future.
Here?s my tentative plan;
1) Buy a ~$25,000 Cessna 150/152, Piper Tomahawk, etc this spring/summer ?08
2)Pay it off over the next 12 months.
3) Order an RV kit - Summer/Fall-09
4) Build RV Kit ? 2-3 years.
5) When ready for an engine for the RV, sell the 150/Tomahawk and use the funds for a new engine.
Seems to me like I can find a 150/152/Tomahawk with low hours (<600) on the engine in the $25K range. Assuming I fly a hundred or so hours a year for the next 2-3 years, I imagine that I should be able to get what I paid for it back out (or close to it) when I sell.
If I go this route, I would have a solid plane to fly for the next few years, and by the time the RV is finished, I will have several hundred hours under my belt which should help with insurance.
Has anyone else gone this route, and are there any pitfalls that I?m not seeing?
Thanks,
UnPossible
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That's almost exactly what I did. I bought a Tomahawk about 3 months after getting my license and started the RV about a year later.
__________________
Kyle Boatright
Marietta, GA
2001 RV-6 N46KB
2019(?) RV-10
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01-16-2008, 05:13 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,452
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my free opinion
SLOW down. When i started flight training, i got all excited and looked at tons of planes. Found a great deal, to good to be true, plane was LIKE NEW. Wow, imagine my goof fortune, i seemed to know more, be smarter and just have more luck than all them experienced flyers out there. Lined it up, paid a deposit, and hired my cfi to go with me to pick it up 4 hours away. Funny, trying to buy a hanger when you dont even have a plane. Ha. Anyway, my wife and also my cfi put up with my goofiness. When we went to pick up the plane, there were some issues and it didnt work out. I forced myself to slow down. In those next few months....my DREAM plane changed, my interests changed and i found I could build the plane I wanted and learn a ton, with a lot less capital tied up.
I would finish your lic, with the crappy rentals, spend a few extra dollars renting and flying a few different rental planes....and get the vans kit started. If in 6 months, after you have your ppl, and have mucho more experience and have kicked the tires on lots of cheap used planes....buy your high time plane then and enjoy the heck out of it. If that deal of the century i had would have gone through...my rushed purchase would have cost me a fortune....,way more than my FINISHED rv9 will cost when done, and not near the plane or fun. All the best...good luck.
__________________
Rick Woodall C-GSTT "ghost"
9a -TMX io-320, catto three blade, dual dynon hdx with a/p. 900+ hrs in 8 yrs flying.
Flew to Osh 11,12,15,17,19. SNF 2013. West to Cali /Washington/Vancouver/crossed the Rockies north to Red Deer east to Moosonee and over to maritimes. South to Jekyll Isl, cedar key, and Key West etc. 6 trips and 17 islands of the Bahamas. Flown turtles and dogs for Pilots n Paws too. Love our Rv's
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01-16-2008, 05:27 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Delta, CO/Atlin, BC
Posts: 2,391
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UnPossible,
I would agree with the other folks. I got a license eons ago, quit flying, and then started again after many years (I can finally almost afford it). I rented to get current again and then bought a 1961 172 (almost the same airplane I bought when getting my ppl but 3x the price). To make a long story short, it has been a good plane to rebuild my hours, nice because it's mine and I don't have to worry about scheduling a rental. I will end up selling it this summer to pay for the last of my 9A. However, it has been an expensive investment and if I were at your stage of decision making (don't know about your finances), I would probably go the rental route for at least several more months. I would also encourage you to 1) travel around a bit and look at options (RV, other homebuilds, used certified) and make sure you know what you (think) you want a bit better; and 2) Help someone else out building their plane (must be someone close by that could use help - advertise on this forum) to see if you really want to build, then get the emp kit, which is not very expensive (but you will also have to get some tools, unless you can borrow).
FWIW, my experience has been that the ultimate cost of an RV is significantly greater than what you get on the Van's estimator. There are a lot of little (and not so little) things that you really need even on a VFR airplane to make it useable (i.e., their estimate of avionics costs is laughable and assumes almost nothing for instrumentation, though still legal). You can, of course, save some $ by scrounging and spreading your build over a few years to take advantage of opportunities that may arise.
greg
__________________
Greg Arehart
RV-9B (Big tires) Tipup @AJZ or CYSQ
N 7965A
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01-16-2008, 05:31 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 149
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I don't see anything wrong with the plan, as I did something similar. A couple of observations of my experience:
- there are lots of hidden costs to owning an airplane, even a simple one. One unexpected engine overhaul can really screw your financial model (ask me how I know)
- seriously pursuing a rating takes away from build time (I bought my tail kit around the time I started my IR)
- flying off on weekend trips in your plane takes away from build time (but its fun)
- I wouldn't count on selling the plane for what you paid for it, or even close to it. I think those days are gone with the aging fleet and the new stuff coming out (Cirrus, glass cockpits, etc).
Consider a partnership in a trainer to reduce your capital outlay, and get to fly the same plane all the time.
But, I really dig having my cake and eating it, too! I'll finish this plane someday.
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01-16-2008, 05:48 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Midlothian, TX
Posts: 169
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Slow down
Owning a plane is a wonderful thing but like they say if it flys, floats or f*&!% it is cheaper to rent. If you want to have the money to buy your engine when it comes time to do it, don't put it into another plane. Like John said, consider being in a club to use their plane. Are you really wanting to have insurance on a plane, as well as your kit? Hidden costs?  That is an understatement unless you are lucky. I have to admit, I have been lucky in my plane ownership but have known many that ended up with a money pit. It is all in the luck of the draw. I have owned several planes and considered purchasing something cheap to fly while I build and then turn it into an engine, but I can't afford to take the chance of needing to sink serious money into an engine on the "cheap" interim machine. If you have the disposable income to handle that, press on, but you will come out with less at risk and less total cost if you rent.
Buy the tail kit and get busy, before you know it you will need that engine.
Best of luck to you!
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01-16-2008, 05:55 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 848
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If you must own
Buy your second plane first! The first plane will become boring and worthless to you in no time at all. So why not just skip that step and save the money and hassle of paying taxes, brokerage fees, and your time to boot. Go right for the prize and leave the Tomahawks for somebody else. My two cents.
Best,
__________________
Bryan 9A Sold
Beech S35, and daydreams of a Super 8 or a Rocket starting to take over my brain.
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01-16-2008, 06:08 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: spokane, wa
Posts: 805
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You are doing simular to what i did. I started flight training and bought a kitfox, nice airplane, and flew the heck out of it. I did training in both the kitfox and the cessna. I was lucky to have a CFI that would flight train in an experimental, tail wheel at that. I got my ppl, but I had to do the final in the cessna, that was ok. I been flying now with the ppl for 4 years. I have over 900 hours, it's been really fun. I'm finishing up on the RV, working on the panel and the engine gets here next month. Lots to do, but I want it done by the end of summer, hopefully. If it doesn't, than I keep flying the heck out of the fox. Oh with that many flight hours, multiply that by 120 an hour and see what you get. I saved a bunch.
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01-16-2008, 06:09 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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I agree with not buying a plane. Get your license first (or maybe order the tail kit), rent as required, and find someone with an RV to let you fly a bit. RVs are more responsive than a 150 but I doubt that it will be an issue to fly. If you have concerns there is always the 9A.
I flew a 150 a few months ago and it was great. Nostalgia and all that. But it is a dog to fly.
If you buy a plane you will have costs that will cut into building a plane and then you have to worry about selling it.
Let's be honest. GA is not healthy. As fuel prices go up there is less flying. Less flying may mean a poor market to resale a 150/Warrior/etc.
Once you get your license...go fly and RV and start the selection process. If need be, get transition training from a real instructor.
PS, if the ADS-B Out NPRM I have been warning people about goes into effect, add in the cost of that avionics which per the FAA is around $17,000. If it is only half that amount do you think that will help the GA market or your pocketbook?
Last edited by Ron Lee : 01-16-2008 at 06:43 PM.
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