Icom A210 Misunderstanding??

[rvator51]

I flew this morning with another RV from Deer Valley Airport, DVT Phoenix, AZ to Marana Regional near Tucson AZ and back. We did a flight of two through Phoenix Class B airspace. My initial impressions after about the flight.

The Good:
The unit just looks good compared to the King KY-97 that it replaced.
The displayed frequencies are larger than on the King and easier for me to read.
Subjectively, the receiver seems to be clearer than my old radio. Marc in his RV-7, said the radio sounded great when I transmitted.
Dual scan does monitor two frequencies. We did a flight of two through Phoenix Class Bravo airspace so I just had to listen. I set the radio to monitor PHX approach and then another air to air freq that Marc used to communicate to me.
The knobs turn easily and work good.

The not so good:
Dual scan does not switch back to the primary frequency when there is a transmisson on the primary frequency. This wasnt so bad when I was 2nd in a flight of two. If I had been by my self, I wouldnt have used the dual scan while in touch with Phx approach because I might miss a call on the primary frequency if someone was talking on the standby freq.

Whenever I pushed the PTT to talk to Marc, the ICOM would exit from dual scan mode. I checked the configuration settings and there wasnt a setting to change this behavior. This caused me to miss several calls from Marc because I though I was in dual scan mode and wasnt. So you have to remember to push the dual button after everytime you talk if you want to stay in dual scan mode. If you are flying in a group while in dual scan, this is a hassle.

I didnt get to test the gps selection because I need to redo the cable I made up. I did play with selecting a gps freq from memory. It is several steps to retrieve a gps frequency from gps memory and still looks like it would be easier to just select the frequency directly. The ICOM user guide seems to say that the 10 gps memory channels are programmed automatically by the gps as you get close but doesnt say how this works. I think you have to select the frequencies you want on the gps to get them to go to the GPS memory channels.
I will try to have my cable working soon so I can report on how this actually works on the Icom A-210.

The way the Icom works seems to be a lot different than the Garmin SL-40 which puts the gps freq directly into the standby freq.

Overall impression.
I liked the radio but disliked how the dual scan and gps frequency selection works. I wish they could have put a setting in the cofiguration file that would allow you to select whether the PTT disables dual scan or not and whether to allow priority freq monitoring or not. The only reason I bought the radio was because of the dual scan feature. Since I mostly fly in or around class B airspace, I wanted to be able to monitor the standby freq while never missing a transmission on the priority channel. The RV-4 panel doesnt have a lot of room and I didnt want to stick another radio in there. The Icom seemed to fullfill my needs at several hundred dollars less than the Garmin SL-40. I will continue to fly with the radio and see if I can get used to the limitations of the dual scan, but am now thinking about selling it and getting a SL-40 at some time in the near future.
If you dont need the dual scan mode because you have two radios, I think the Icom would work great.
If Icom could make a couple of software and configuration setting changes to alter the behavior of the dual scan, gps entry and PTT, it would be a winner. The email I received back from them didnt sound like that was an option, though.

[gmcjetpilot]

I hope Icom reads this and makes a B model of the A210 and fixes these gripes. Probably never get true dual listen capability unless they add a second receiver, which is probably unlikely, at least at current price point. I just can't believe a second VHF receiver is that much money, probably can put it all on chip. Good write up. From the Views and word of mouth, +2,500 know the score. If sales go in the can than may be Icom might make a change?

[rvator51]

I got the GPS interface to work on the Icom today. Heres how it works.

There are 10 gps memory channels assigned to gps frequencies. The Icom manual says to press the "RCL" button and rotate the outer knob to access them.
This only works if the GPS is turned on and has the correct settings and the ICOM is connected properly.
Once everything is connected properly and both the GPS and the Icom are turned on, then the gps memory will show on the Icom when you press the "RCL" button and rotate the outer knob to "GPS" memory.
The 10 channel gps memory is more like a temporary cache that is overwritten as needed by new gps data instead of permanent memory like the other channels.
When I first pressed the "RCL" button and rotated the knob to "GPS", all of the frequencies for KDVT (Deer Valley Airport where my hanger is) showed in the gps memory channels. The neat thing is that each freq had a label that told what it was used for, ie twr, grd, app, etc.

Based on the above, it looks like the Icom automatically downloads a list of the freqs used by an airport into the GPS memory.
I do not yet know how it decides to which airport frequencies to put in gps memory. Does it go off the flight plan and show only the closest airport freqs from the direct to or flight plan? Or does it show the closest airport to the plane no matter whether it is on the flight plan or not? I will do a flight soon and find out what the parameters are for how it shows the list of airport frequencies.
You can also press the "MEM" button and put the entire GPS list at one time into one of the 20 group (GRP) memories. I did this and now all of the freqs for KDVT show under the title "GRP20 KDVT" memory.
I have to say as much as I have complained about the advanced featuress of the radio so far, I found the GPS function very easy to understand and easy to use and I really like it. I think I will use the gps interface a lot.

Like the dual scan function, Icom seems to not have done the gps interface 100%. If you select a frequency on the GPS and press the Enter button, the GPS sends the freq on the data out line. The Garmin SL30 and SL40 and others then show the freq in the standby window. However, I couldn't get this to work on the Icom A-210. It looks likes it only downloads lists of freqs at airports and doesnt allow you to manually select a freq from the GPS to use.
As good as the rest of the GPS interface works, I can live with this limitation.

Bottom line for me at this point.
I love 95% of this radio and am unhappy with 5% of it.
I think people with two radios who dont need the dual scan feature are really going to like this radio.

Deal killer
If dual scan is monitoring the standby frequency and a transmission is made on the primary frequency, the Icom will not go back to the primary frequency but stay on standby until it is done, then start monitoring again for the first freq to transmit again. PTT cancelling the dual scan mode is irritating and easy to overlook until you realize dual scan is not working anymore.
If Icom comes up with a fix for this, I will become an vocal supporter of this radio and may buy another one for the other RV.
If Icom doesnt, I will sell it and replace it with a Garmin SL-40.

Although Icom doesnt advertize it in their installation manual other than to say 3rd party compatibility, it looks like the Icom A-210 can also be used as a slide in replacement for the SL-40 as well as the King KY-97A and the Icom A-200. I ordered a connector and a SL-40 tray that I am going to rewire and use instead of the supplied tray/molex connector. If I decide to go with a SL-40, it's just a matter of sliding the Icom A-210 out and sliding the SL-40 in. The pin outs for everything are exactly identical.

[Brantel]

After you setup your gps to talk to the Icom, were you still able to use the gps with the autopilot and the Dynon?

[Pilottonny]

What I understand from all the above posts, is that the "Primary" and "Stand-by" frequencies are actually two scanned frequencies with the same value/status/importance? The one that catches the first communication wins?

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by Pilottonny

What I understand from all the above posts, is that the "Primary" and "Stand-by" frequencies are actually two scanned frequencies with the same value/status/importance? The one that catches the first communication wins?

Yes. Excellent way to put it. Icom says we know and we are not going to change it.

I was told they are aware of the complaints and there are no plans to ever update the existing unit. All ICOM America can do is send reports back to Japan. I'm sure if sales fall off they might discontinue the model and make a whole new model.

The also say their ad "monitors two freq simultaneously", is OK because it says. The word "monitor" is their excuse. Monitor? Listen? Please 100% of the first people who bought the A210 over the older A200 thought they could actually hear two freqs, at the same time, "simultaneously". There is nothing ambiguous about the word "simultaneously": happening, existing, or occuring at the same time or moment.

If you want true listen to two freq simultaneously than spend the extra $350 or so bucks on a Garmin SL40.

The only way ICOM will get the message is if sales are flat and existing customers try to return their units and/or complain. Of course returns are handled only by the retailer not Icom. If say ACS gets enough complaints at least they might warn people who order it about the possible misunderstanding about its features and capabilities.

If you are really mad you can file a complaint with the attorney general of Washington state on-line or the BBB for false advertising. Personally I don't think ICOM was doing something sneaky, just Japanese to English translation issues.

[rocketbob]

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot

I was told they are aware of the complaints and there are no plans to ever update the existing unit. All ICOM America can do is send reports back to Japan.

This is exactly what they told me at OSH when I was comparing features with other radios. After a bit of thought the next day I bought an XCOM 760. It does everything the ICOM radio does and then some in a much smaller, lighter package. With the show special price it was cheaper than the ICOM. The Microair is at feature-parity with the XCOM radio however I think the XCOM radio seems to be a bit more user-friendly and has a couple of things I think are better design-wise, like no pots for mic gain. Some of my Aussie friends were there and spoke highly of XCOM and that pretty much sealed the deal for me.